The Fragile Balance of Host and Co-Host in Podcasting

Ask the podcast coach for January 14 2023. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is that music. That means it's Saturday morning. It's time for Ask the podcast coach. I think my head's gonna explode. I ran in room. I'm Dave Jackson from the School of podcasting.com. And on today's show, we're going to talk about CO hosts, Jim and I might have the awkward conversation. We haven't done that yet for 2023. And, you know, people are watching a bunch of new podcasts. So we got a bunch of launching questions. And of course, we have people in the chat room that are going to be throwing things at us. And to help me walk through all that fun stuff is the one and only Jim Collison from the average guy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Greetings, Dave, happy Saturday morning to you know, in the last couple of weekends up here, I've always I've a fireplace, winter escape. I'm feeling a little. I'm looking forward to some beachy better Atmos. So we got the beach going up at the I've moved the studio to beach location, and we're excited to be here. But hopefully the weather is good. And all as well, where you're looking,

you know, a good way to warm up.

Yeah, a little bit of coffee, a little bit of coffee.

Absolutely. Let's see if I can get this going here. And I'm going to do this. I'm gonna get a little Kaleidoscope going here. Because I'm going to share my screen today we're going to do something different with what different I know I get. I can share a Chrome tab. Ah, see, this is even better. I think yes, I can share Oh, look at this. I know I'm still getting kind of a kaleidoscope thing, at least for me. But that is the website, podcast branding.co. And I'm always like, I've always asked Mark and like, Hey, can you you know, send us some artwork. And so if you're watching the video version of this, we're at podcast branding.co. I went over and clicked on I believe podcast art. And there's this carousel that happens at the bottom. And you can see all of Mark's Awesome work. Now why is it awesome? Because number one mark is an award winning graphic artist. And number two, he is a podcaster. So he understands podcasting, and he's gonna sit down with you, one on one, understand what the, the vibe of your show is. He's all about branding. So if you need artwork, if you need a website, if you need some sort of lead magnet, he wants to make sure that everything is in alignment so that it just flows and nobody goes, Oh, yeah, I get this show. And so the website again, podcast branding.co is where you can go over. And if there's anything that you want to look better, Mark, it can definitely help you with that. And check it out podcast brandings.co.

Big thanks to our good friend Dan love fab over there based on a true story podcast at based on a true story podcast.com. He's got some new episodes out. We talked about Spartacus last week. But he's got some new things going on over there on his site and some a new this week. segment, you might want to check it out some new stuff, and he's trying some stuff new, and give it give it a look based on a true story. podcast.com Make sure you subscribe to it on your podcast app as well. Dan, thanks for your sponsorship of the show.

We're gonna talk a little bit about CO hosts and such. Today, but this last week, we ended with somebody saying hey, what happens if your co host wants to kind of swap roles, maybe your color commentary, maybe you're the producer, whatever it is, but things wanted to to change. And I reached out to Sean and said, Hey, that's a really cool situation. Any chance you can just come on live and let's just talk about it. And unfortunately, yesterday or last week him hearing the show was something of a fluke. He's normally busy at this time of day. And he's like, I'd love to but he can't so here's the backstory to his question, which was again, how do I bring up the subject that hey, my, my co host who used to be kind of the somebody's the leader, alright picks the topic, and then somebody's kind of color commentary. And basically he was the leader and apparently it's now been like he's in the color commentary thing. So he says I've been pod. I've been podcast choice. Well, yeah, since I've, I've been podcasting with David my normal coast for over two years. This past year, David had some health issues. So I reached out and had a few guest co host fill in. Jay came on four months ago, and we hit it off, Dave and I decided to keep him as a second co host and go to a trio show. I've been the lead since the beginning but Jake came in and the last recording session before our Christmas break and asked if he could take the lead kind of out of the blue. So I was like okay, you know, let's give it a try. I left the recording confused and didn't want to say anything because I thought it might be just my ego, I edit the show, and I posted it up and went back and listen to the show and Jake wasn't bad. So I reached out and went, Hey, you did? Well, I'd be open to sharing hosting duties. Or you can run our first segment on the, in the next episode, he turned down the segment idea. He didn't say much about the idea of sharing hosting. And I'm just trying to figure out how to approach this with Jake from a non ego position. So that's an interesting spot. The the bottom line is what what happened here is the format, I guess, is what we'll call it, right? The the format changed, and nobody talked about it. Like they kind of was like, Hey, you want to bring like anytime you do a format change, you probably should set up a, hey, let's try this for x amount of episodes and then revisit, because that way, I think it gives the not anticipation, but the expectation that, hey, this isn't permanent. We're going to revisit it. And we'll see how everybody feels about it. In X amount of episodes. What do you think, Jim?

No, definitely. You want to have very clear expectations laid out? Yeah. Is, is we're talking about this. I'm thinking back to Mike Uyghur was my co host on home gadget geeks for a lot of years longer than anybody else. And he would, he would hint from time to time to me, Hey, can I open the show? Like he knew my opening? Like he sat through it 1000 times? And he could do it? And I never said yes. And I probably should have now would that have? Would that have changed things from a long term perspective? Probably not. But there were clues there. And I think it's a great way. If you've I mean, if you've got co hosts that that want to do that. I think it's a great, it's great learning great training, great opportunities, forums, keeps them engaged. But I think you have to make the expectations super clear. Like, Dave, I never want to open the show. Never. Now I've done it because we've done the show without you, Greg maybe once or twice not very often. Yeah. And and I don't I this is not something that as a co host. That's not something I don't want to do your job. I like when you do your job. And I do my job whether it's slurping the coffee, which coach Dave's got some problems with this morning. I've been doing it every morning for the last three or four years, but or just being the color right? So I think it's worth the conversation of like, Hey, are we still good with this? Like, let's talk about it. And what I love what you just said is, if you're gonna change formats, do some specified or very clear amounts of episodes. Hey, for the next five episodes, you're going to do this and then we're going to reevaluate, right? I like I like that idea.

Yeah, Randy says so the newly invited temporary guy doesn't want to share hosting duties, just just making sure I understand the context. Yeah, that's what do they say? He's been around for four months now. So

well, but maybe he's, you know how it is when you first start podcasting get really excited about it. You kind of like, oh, man, I could do I could I really like to do this? I mean, this was one of the reasons I started my own podcast is because I, I wanted to lead I there was something I wanted. Yeah. Right. And I knew for sure the podcast as I was on at the time, that wasn't gonna happen. So it was, it was like, Okay, well, I'll just, I'll do my own.

Yeah, I think that's really what happened here. They're just like, hey, you know, the one guy got sick. So he had to step back, we bring in a new guy. And that's where he needed to say, Okay, here's the deal when you know, Person number one comes back, and then when they made it a trio they should have, that's when you need to say, Okay, here's what's going on. And then yeah, it just has to be and here's the, here's what you need to do. And this is the tough part is now I need to sit down and go, Okay, here's the thing. I really like being the lead guy. And apparently, so do you. And you can only have one number one priority. And so it's a matter of, if Shawn Right, the original lead guitar player, in this case, if he's okay, doing 5050 6040, like what's you know, because if he goes zero, and as you know, doesn't get to lead anymore, he's not going to be happy. So you just need to have this open, awkward conversation. And the beauty of that is, when it's over. You then have expectations. My ex wife and I did this this one time, and she was just saying how, you know, she wanted days where I was at home and there were days when I could podcast and she goes, How many days do you need? And I go What about Thursdays? Good evening, like, I'll get home, we'll have dinner and when dinner is over, I'll go into the cave. And I go in Saturday morning. And she's like, okay, that's fine by me. She goes, can you get all your stuff done? And I go, Yeah, so it was awkward and this weird thing and we got done. We're like, okay, and so, on Wednesday, I knew, you know, put your phone down and spend time with your family idiot. And but it's that awkward conversation that you got to have. So coming in from the yellow studio in Dallas Fort Worth. Randy can trail I love right. I was it was supposed

to do on that radio. Not very good.

No, none of my none of my invitations. But it's weird because I used to walk around, there was a pond in my apartment. And I would listen to Randy, and walk around the, you know, get chased by geese. And the other night, I was like, I was at a strip mall. And I was like, you know, instead of taking the car and driving across to Target and I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna walk and I was like, Oh, I'm walking Hold on, and popped on Randy, congratulations on 45 years of marriage. 3045. Holy cow. And

on January 2,

did you guys go back in time and get married? Or? No,

we got married. Just shy of 21. I was started dating when we were 18. So we've been together for that long. Wow. Now, yeah, well, I'm

a few years behind you, but I'll be in that similar situation. We were we were really young too. And so you know, we're, we're coming up on a few.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's good. Listen, this this question is, is for years I had no co host at all ever. I just solo monologue kind of stuff. And in the last two years, so on June in June of 2021, I started a hyperlocal podcast about this place in Arkansas, hot springs village, Arkansas. And the podcast is hot springs village Inside Out HSV for short. No, it doesn't stamp. The H isn't for herpes. By the way. Be careful when you when you do the short version. Yeah, sound that way. You google HSB. You get all kinds of Yeah, maladies and stuff. But anyway. And I got a co host. So I go, I go visit this place. And I kind of wanted to do a hyperlocal podcast. And by hyperlocal, I define that as the content is all about this place in central Arkansas and the surrounding areas. I immediately thought well, you know, the population there, that'll be the kind of the natural audience. Okay, the thing blew up, and it went nationwide. And we started hearing immediately from people in Florida and New York and California who had never even been to Arkansas, but they were looking for a place to kind of go retire. So I invite a co host, because there's a guy there who's, I mean, he's been there for years. He's an Arkansas guy. He knows the community. He's got a Rolodex to die for I just dated myself. And so I invite him to co host. He's a real gregarious outgoing guy. You guys know me, I'm not. And so it was, it was kind of it was a good ying yang. And it was fueled by my curiosity, because he was kind of the state resident expert. And so I would ask questions, ask questions, well, then we started having on gas. And that's great and wonderful. And we've had some terrific guests on that are really serving the audience. But I'm kind of real curious and wanting to hear what the guest has to say, and my co host. He's always got stories to tell, you know, he, he's right there sharing the limelight with the guest. And this, this is a conversation I've had with him. So I don't mind being really transparent public about it drove me out of my mind. And I'm like, No, this isn't what I want. This isn't what I had in mind. So what I did, as the owner of the podcast, the beginner of the and I own it lock stock and smoke and barrel, but I had a the very first conversation I had with him was similar to the conversation you guys had and just kind of working out the ground rules and I said, Listen, I don't plan on monetizing this. But if we ever make $1 We're just gonna go even Steven 5050 and I'm not putting it in writing and we're not going to do a legal document. We're not gonna but this is the understanding and and that's what we've we've done and we have monetized it by the way. I ended up backing out. I ended up just kind of removing myself. I was last on the show back in July, and I just reappeared this past week. For like one episode.

Did he Did he take over Randy did he take over the hosting duties and you produce or what was back out?

I do all that I do all I do everything except show up and record. And it just drove me so crazy. And it still does. Because I want the guests to shine. And the audience doesn't seem to care. And so I'm sitting here and I'm like, you know, I'm just not gonna be that stubborn about this. Yeah. Even though it's not quite the way I would do it. He's there. He knows these people. He's, he lives in this place full time. I don't, I'm in Dallas Fort Worth, you know, I get over there as often as I can. And so I just acquiesced. Because I felt like that was the best thing to do for the show, even though it's not quite what I would. It's not how I wouldn't engineer it. But it's, it's fine. And so I decided recently that what I'm going to do is I'm going to invite people on that I really want to hear from without him in the room. Yeah, without him interfering without him horning in and telling his stories, right? Because I told him, I said, Listen, if you want to tell your stories, it's fine. Let's just do it when it's just us. And we don't have this third person on the screen and try to overshadow them. So we had many, what Dave said awkward conversations, which for me, aren't I mean, they're just necessary, right? We were just forthright and we were candid, and you know, we still love each other. And it's, it's all it's all good. But that was our that was our solution. He's such an extrovert. He's such a Limelight hog. You know, I mean, he's just an attention whore. You know, I mean, but that

probably made him good in the beginning, right? Because you're you have a little more of an introverted personality. He was more. Yeah, he was more extroverted. That was probably a key to the early success, right. And then as you started adding guests that change the guests change the dynamic, did you consider at any point maybe having a show where he it was just the two of you. And then on the off show? It was, it was just a guest? You know, like flip flop, though, so that he would get some time and you could have a show where he could?

Yeah, listen, I consider just about everything that I finally concluded. There's an Einstein quote, I don't know if he said it or not. But I use it very often with coaching clients, you know, I mean, fish don't climb trees. Right. And it just dawned on me, no. One of us is a fish. One of us is a squirrel. I don't know pick one. I don't know which one I am. But I'm one of them. And he's definitely not that. Yeah. And so it just dawned on me. No, it's not fair for me to try to get him to be what, you know what I want him to be let him just, I just turned him loose. I just absolutely turned him loose. I backed out. We didn't get into it. There was no spat. It was it was all fine. Do the all of those conversations go exactly the way they would go? If? If it were me conducting those? No, no, not at all. You know, because I'm gonna ask questions and just keep the conversation moving forward. It's just not his style. It's not the way he rolls. So the solution was let him be him. I can talk to some people that I want to talk to. My fear is, I don't want the guests that were I'm not involved to reading the signal about that. So the main reason I clicked join was to ask you guys for your input on that. So he's got guests. Now if I start having guests, and I'm not playing on matching him, by the way, one for one. But now it now I've got head trash that I'm I'm nervous that okay. If somebody's on the on the show. And he's the he's the host. And I'm not. Do they think well, okay, so Randy, Randy's too good to talk to me. Right? Yeah. Ha,

that's a good question.

Because I know on pod news, whatever they're calling it a weekly review, I think it is. Sometimes the one co host will talk to somebody. And other times, the other co hosts will talk to somebody. And I always just felt it was probably due to scheduling. Because it's hard to get three people together, especially if somebody is on the west coast and somebody is on the east coast and the other person's in Australia. It's like, oh, this is a nightmare. And it's open usually what they do

want to get out. Yeah, is use that.

Yeah. And then the other one is, they will. It sounds like at least on the show, and I don't know if they're doing this live, but it sounds like they play the interview. So they'll be like, Hey Sam, you talked to so and so from such and such about their new product. And Sam will be like I did. And then you'll hear the interview. And at the end, they both then talk about the interview that Sam did. So that's, that's their format. They'll be like, I really liked the fact that they're doing this in that and that yeah, it was really good. It'll be fun to see what they do in the future. So they kind of do a little Jerry Springer. Let's wrap up the interview. What did you learn from that kind of thing?

Good idea. It's just more work than I want to. Yeah, there's a lot.

There's a lot of work. Yeah, cuz you're double. You're doing the interview. And then you're recording commentary to the interview. A couple of guys I listened to do that same thing. And actually, radio I think it works out really, really well. I know it's it's extra work. But it gives you a chance to have a single interview or you control that interview and then still at the let the guest or let the host, your additional host come in and make some comments about it. Right. They front load that interview so that the back end, if people just want to hear the interview, they can drop off, you know, they can drop off as soon as the interview is over. So again, that's that's double work. Right? You're recording the conversation in the interview, then you're recording commentary to the interviewer. I find it that effective format. But again, that's that's where are you guys at? I mean, from Dr. was asking in, in the question. Are you still are you still splitting the money? Is that working? Yeah. Oh,

there's no, there's no, there's no problem with that. Well, listen, the sponsorship started. Not because we asked but right. So we were we were we had not launched this thing or that. I don't know how many shows we were into it. And real estate people. Were getting phone calls. I mean, the show was selling houses. There were people that were cashing out of their house in Florida or California or New York. And they were moving to this place. And they were telling the realtors that they heard our show. I have no idea how, you know, our SEO, our SEO got pretty good pretty quick. And that fascinated me. I was like, you know, I mean, people are coming to visit this place. And they've never even visited Arkansas before. Yeah, this place is five hours from DFW. So there's a ton of Texans over there. And so the REMAX office, which is the she is the queen bee over there. She wanted to, you know, sponsor the show, we talked to her and super smart, you know, we've only got I've only got two sponsors, you know, I've got a media partner because they have a radio station there. We're probably a week away, we're gonna be on the radio station that's there. On Saturday mornings, and Sunday mornings, you know, my co host has edited and, and he can play music on that because it's already a station and so we're gonna have an hour long HSV Inside Out Radio Show. Nice that that is just gonna promote the podcast. So now the money in every Listen, everything is everything is going swimmingly, and I just felt selfish, I felt like, okay, just because it's not my vision. Here's what I likened it to. And Dave will appreciate this. I likened it to being in a garage and band that, you know, you're playing these songs, and you've been living with the songs for, you know, for years, and then you go to Nashville, and some record producer tells you, you know, here's his vision of you, Will y'all been together, playing for years. And that's what it felt like for me, even though I've never been in a band, but I can imagine, you know, we've been living with the songs and we've had this vision in our head and I just, I just didn't want to, I didn't want to be closed minded to the fact that here's a guy that knows everybody, he can open every door. And I'm just not gonna throw cold water on that. Yeah, I'm just gonna let him be him. And I'm gonna swallow hard and not worry about

it. Yeah, and Dr. Says so he he does know why you you backed out sounds like you had that conversation. Yeah, it was pretty there's absolutely

knows. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's heated conversation.

Well, the head the head the thing going on your head is real. Write this down. Just write and and I think it's this is the hardest part about doing this is there's no easy answer you, you can't just tell yourself, oh, I need to be good with this. That doesn't work. Like you. You've got to work through it emotionally. Right. And it is your baby that now is being and I think maybe this is the crux of the issue. And Dave, I'll throw to you on this one. It's your vision. That's now something somebody else's vision that's going in a different direction.

Yeah, that's, that's rough on anything. When? When I went to college, the first time I ended up being the editor of the student newsletter, and I took it from where we didn't have an office, we didn't have a computer to we had an office. We had a computer and a staff. It was a lot of fun. And that was the problem. I was having too much fun. Being the editor of the student newsletter that my grades went down the drain, and I went, alright, I need to graduate. And so one of the staff members took over the first thing he did was he changed the name of the newsletter. And I was like, God, that's my, that's my baby. You just, you know, and then it's like, no, we're not doing that anymore we're doing is like, Ah, I was like, Well, I'm not here like this not a journalism degree. You know, I was like, but I just had to be like, alright, so it's, it's tough to watch somebody else take your creation. And just like, yeah, that's if, if that was me, that would mean okay. So

like, get that my situation is different than than a person who asked you the question, you know, not? I'm not sure. I know, for sure. I know, for sure I would have the conversation. And I know for sure that I would go ahead and express my resentment. Because I would I mean, what person that started as a host, and you invite somebody in four months, and you know, they've got this expectation. That's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute, dude. Yeah, that may not be easy for some folks. I'm not currently gets any easier. I'm not corrupted. Well, I'm not corrupted with that guy, head trash jet. I mean, you know, I'm like, listen, the way I respect the job that you're doing, and you can add something to this, but you know, don't don't forget, you were invited to this party. Yeah. A little respect. Well, that level of ingratitude. I personally wouldn't take it. But that's me. Right. So everybody can do what they want.

No, it's It's the heart. I think it's the hardest part. Whenever you're thinking about adding a second person, are you starting this as a team, these dynamics, if, you know, we, we saw this in bands before we started podcasts, like the human in the human part of this the relational part of it's the hardest part by far. Well, you know, and you're

doing the best thing, which is talking out in the open one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. We had a drummer that was buku talented. And we're playing in a blues band, little swing here and there. And he's thrown in double bass parts, like he's in Metallica, dry completely inappropriate. And, you know, so the bass player is talking to the keyboard player, the singer is talking to me. And so we're all like thinking about, we should probably fire this guy, and I go, why don't we like, let him know, like, Hey, don't do that. So, you know, we're in the backstage area, better known as the bathroom. And we're like, hey, Larry, enough with the double bass. Like you're in a blues band. I go and he's like, Oh, okay. Come on. best gig ever. Best gig ever. Awesome. And then the band fired him. And I was like, No, we didn't dented did. So if you you know, you guys are already talking out front. And you know, that's the fun thing is like when you say Hey, can you kind of, you know, if we go back to the Ross on friends, can we kind of bring down the stories a little bit? And he doesn't. That's where things get awkward.

So we talked we, you know, I we had countless sessions on how we could improve how can we improve the show? And I was very candid. And I said, well, here, here's my, here's my vision and my curiosity about the places what fueled it. This is a this is 26,000 acres in Central Arkansas. That's like in the middle of the Washington National Forest. It's to die for it's gorgeous. But it is not a municipality. It is a property owners association, was a guy that works with city government, I had all kinds of questions. I'm like, Well, I don't even understand the way this place operates. You know, the place is 52 years old. And I had a ton of questions just about all kinds of questions that an outsider would normally have. And so he went from being the resident expert, co host, but at the same time, he was the resident expert, I was the guy asking the questions. And then we started having on guests. And that's where the dynamic changed. And immediately, I'm like, if you want to tell stories, I'm all about it. But let's save those when it's just you and me. Yeah, we don't have a guest. And I kept pushing water up that hill, trying to get it was hard. He just couldn't, it just wasn't in him to do it. And so I thought, you know, this is I'm probably being stupid here. I probably need to just let him run.

Well, the other thing is, you could always edit out the stories.

If you want to, well, you know me I like this broadcast workflow that I'm not. I'm not big on that. I appreciate your time. I've hogged enough airtime. No. Randy, hold

on. I got I got one before you go. I got one. I got one question for you. If you were working with a CEO, who was the was a founder and had brought on the business was successful and had brought on a board or had hired some hired a CEO and a CFO and they were trying to now run maybe CEO a CEO would probably be the best example now running the company on Like the founder wanted to, and it was running into the same kind of headway. What kind of advice would you give? I mean, this is your this is kind of your bread and butter in your space. What kind of advice? Would you give that CEO or that founder? In? Well, I

mean, they're the dynamics a little bit different. I mean, first of all, what are the results? You know, I mean, if, if the company success is his will say they're having great success. Yeah. I mean, if they're having great success, that that complicates it, but at the same time, you still have a hierarchy. I mean, there still is the respect factor the question or have for Dave, that was, that was what hit me, my co host, and I, there is absolutely zero loss of respect. And I just thought, I'm not going to continue to fuel my resentment. I'm going to just go ahead and unplug my resentment, telling what I'm doing, telling why I'm doing it. You know, in your scenario, I can just tell you right now, I wouldn't put up with it. Yeah, I wouldn't put up with some cat that, you know, it's got to be all about him. I would, we've got to, we've got to figure out a way to make this collaboration work. I respect your skills, I appreciate what you do. You're having outstanding results, and I want to support that. But at the same time you owe my position. If not me personally, a little greater respect and a bit more grace than you're extending? Yeah, don't make this all about you. Because there's a whole lot more of us in this room that are contributing to this effort. It ain't just you. That probably be the conversation I would have if I were sitting in the number one chair. Yeah,

no, I just started spinning that a little bit in the air. Get take advantage of your experience in that it's not it's different. Right. Oh, vary from a podcast to running a company. Certainly the the odds could be much greater on both sides. But but I thought I'd leaning into that experience with you see how you

Well, there you can't the elephant in the room with all of this still, though, is I mean, ownership does matter. This is Dave's show, you know that you respect that. This podcast in Hot Springs village is my show. He knows that I don't play that card, any more than Dave plays that card here. He doesn't have to, I don't have to. And I guess for me the big takeaway for anybody. Because this is relatively new for me, I didn't have a co host, I didn't have a co host years and years and years and years. Until 2021. So days, you both are infinitely more, you know, acclimated to this than me. But I did exactly what I'd heard you guys say over and over again, you know, have the conversation at the get go right from the start, I would only add to that, keep reinforcing that conversation. I mean, keep reinforce is no different than employees and a team. We got to keep, we go out to the field and we knock it, we knock it dead and we kill it. Well, we got another game next week, we better keep on preaching the same sermon and keep reinforcing it. I don't think you got to be heavy handed about it. But the expectations of constantly, I think have to be managed.

Yeah. Because there's so much there's so many moving parts that can come in and can contaminate, you know, the chemistry, you know, the show, and, you know, it's I'm just worried that somewhere down the line, you're gonna be, you know, putting together an episode or whatever, and he's gonna go into his story, and you're gonna be like, Ah,

good night now.

I was listening to the guest. And he came in talking about the time when the you know, yeah,

yeah. Well, and that's why that's why that's why I backed out right now is because most of this, most of the conversations that not listen, we are plugged in to the the governing folks over there. All right. So the, the, the staffers and the general manager and the Property Owners Association Board of Directors, I mean, we've got great access to them, thanks to somebody that fell in love with the show, who was the who was at the time the interim General Manager. And I'd love to be in some of those conversations, but I just don't know that I can. My problem is I'm outside. He's there. Yeah. He frankly, he's got better questions to ask, than I would ask. So I'm gonna head in to what in journalism circles will be called feature kind of stuff. Right. I mean, I'm interested in the stories of people. Yeah, you know, you got a couple moving in from Chicago, and they're gonna buy one of the flea markets that's outside the gates and it's like, wait a minute, what you know, I mean, I want to hear that story. Well, and so I'm gonna go in that direction.

Yeah, you got time to answer like you Okay, cool, because Dr. Has got another great question. She's, how do you reinforce that conversation without looking like an aihole Be

willing to look like an angel? Don't worry about looking like an A hope just be a good human. Yeah, it would be my best advice. I mean, you know, treat them the way you want to be treated. You know, you can be respectful, but you can still be pointed.

I think that's the key. There is respect. I was in a networking thing. This week was really cool. It's just basically by Jason Van Norden. So for those of you that remember internet business mastery, he was one of the guys behind that. And you basically hopped on Zoom, there's a bunch of it's like three pages of zoom, like have to, you know, you had to go to the next page and the next page, and they broke us into small groups. And so somebody said, how do you get on a podcast as a guest, and I gave my example, go listen to the show, blah, blah, blah. And this guy's like, Hey, Dave, is it okay? If I disagree with you, I said, I would love you to disagree with me. I said, because that means I might actually learn something. And so he's a big fan of spray and pray and explain how it was working for him. And I was like, well, that's really interesting. And, and we got done, and I go see kids, it's called a dialog. Like, I'm not trying to cancel him. He's not trying to cancel me, he has an opinion. So do I, I'll either, you know, I respect him enough to hear it. And he respected enough to hear mine. And at the end, you kind of go, yeah, alright, that guy's an idiot or not, you know, depending on, you know, how you feel about it. But yeah, I think that's the key, don't start, when you start judging the other person and calling names, that's when you're, you've lost respect, and things are going downhill quickly.

One has to be zero sum. That's when we get in, right. That's when we get in the, it's gotta be all me are all you and if it's all you, I'm taking, you know, taking my ball and I'm going home, right? When it when we when we approach it that way. And, Randy, I think in this situation, you've got some sounds like you've got some other opportunities to try some things that may break down the mold of it always has to be him, or it always has to be me or we always have to be together or where you could maybe do some things were like, Yeah, you know what I'll do? I'll handle all the interviews. Yeah, no, let me let me do it. Let me do the interviews that I want to do. And we'll add them into that. I'm not saying this is what you're going to do. But it just gives you some kind of gives you some options. And you can let's try this for a while, I'll tell you why. Maybe it goes back to the what we were talking about earlier of setting expectations and putting time limits on them, and saying, Hey, we're gonna do this for six months. Let's just see how this goes. Right. And if both of us if one of us hates it, we'll readjust if it works. We'll keep going. Right. And so I think the other mistake a lot of folks make is not putting the specified time limit on either like, we're going to do this for 15 episodes, or we're going to do this for six weeks to so that there's a come, there's a time to come back together. And okay, did

this work. It's also time for the audience to chime in, too. But you talked about setting expectations. Chris Nessie says one of the shows I co hosted with two other people lost one of the CO hosts because there was a conflict by getting that person to be more involved in the show prep and the promotion and things like that. And that's another part of it is especially if somebody gets pregnant, forget it. It's over. You know, now Chris says now it's just me and my other co host, because you have to be not only does the co host have to be willing to record every Thursday at 730, or whatever your schedule is, but so does sort of their family. And that's the other thing that I think a lot of people don't think about it is all of a sudden when you hear Wait, what you're gonna podcast again, like it's Thursday at 730. I gotta go, you know, then that's Yeah. And that's

started the show talking about, you know, Jim understood his role as a co host of kind of being the color guy. Yeah. And Dave is clearly the leader. I mean, it was it was not lost on me. You know, Jim not wanting to open the show. And those are things that they seem small. But if you're going to start with a co host, my, I mean, one of my best to just get that all out up front. I handle all the web work. I handle all of the I handle all of the behind the scenes stuff. Yeah, he doesn't do a lick of that. And I don't want him to, it's fine. So there's never going to be resentment. Well, I'm doing a whole lot more, you know, we don't have that. So there's mutual respect. And I would say if there's not mutual respect, you might as well just go ahead and park count. There's good luck that chips gonna sink and you can either choose to go down with it or bail out. That's it. I'm out of here boys

already. Always great talking to you. All right. See you. Take care have a good Saturday. He's

got leaning towards wisdom and I want to say grow great. Yeah, yep. All right. Coach Dave says this show asked the podcast coach sets the bar are for good chemistry for me hard to reverse engineer that recipe. It just works. It works. I wonder if David Jim have offline work going on, you know, we don't really we have a Slack channel that we occasionally drop something in. But it's

more operational though than it is, hey, you know, here's the link, or I'm going to be late or I can't make it this week or, Hey, something's going on with me. Whatever, right? Yeah, we know, we don't spend a lot of time together off of I think in a weird way. We

save it for the show. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, we can talk about that. Because we've done that before. It'd be like, Oh, I've got to think about it. And you'll be like, alright, well, good. We can talk about that. And it's like, because the second time you do a conversation, it's not is no, yeah, it's never

as good for us. For us. I think it's never as good. You're better at it than I am. I think if I've told you already, and then I go say it again. I'd rushed through it. It's not I don't I leave out details. I'm not very good at that. But our pre show prep is really actually just in the first 15 minutes, we get we jump on, hey, how you doing? How's your week? How are things going? You throw out a couple, hey, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about that. Awesome. I get that in my mind. And then like, Hey, I've got this, we could use this. I've got this content. You know, you I bought a new desk chair this week, three years of sitting in this because I bought at the beginning of COVID. I just ruined it, right? That's not what we're going to talk about. But I'll say things like that, hey, I got this new thing. Getting that out. You keep it in the back of your mind. I think that's why I think that's why it works. Maybe it's because we don't spend a ton of time during the week doing this. And then maybe also, this is I've told you this, this is your baby. Like, you can do whatever you want with it. If you want to say hey, I'm going in a different direction. Maybe I shouldn't say this because it opens the door. Forget, let me just retract that.

Yeah, the only direction I would go would be like, yeah, we're done. Thank you. Good night, you know, show 500. See you goodbye. We're you know, we're out of here. Yeah, but it's plays

into the our engagement in this. Yeah. If you guys disappeared on a Saturday, and it was like three or one or zero. At some point, we David, you and I would have that conversation like, okay, we're talking to nobody, unless you said, okay, the downloads are getting Yeah, I don't know. Do you think there's a let's have this conversation? Do you think there's a minimum number of downloads that you would you would consider stealing ROI for a show like this? So for what we're doing for this show, ask the podcast coach, do you have a minimum in your mind?

See, this is fun, because I don't do it for the downloads. I do it for the awesome supporters. That that if that went under a certain number, I'd have to think about that. I'd be like, Yeah, I want to sleep in on Saturday. I love that. Because

you're what you're saying is like, we could get 50 downloads. But if the if the support, the financial support was still there for what the download numbers don't matter. At that point, you're looking for a financial, you have a financial goal in mind. Yeah,

I mean, well, number one, it's fun. I like hanging out with you. So it doesn't have to be a huge amount of of number for that. But the one thing that was very scary in 2022 is I was on the road, I was traveling, and I probably could have done the show because I got back like late Friday night or something like that. But I slept in on a Saturday. And I woke up and I was like, Oh, I remember who that was no, because I don't get to sleep in I work Monday through Friday, Saturday, I wake up for this Sunday, I wake up for church, and I was like, I haven't slept in in since 1980 paid or something like that. But on the other so but then it was like, you know, when I get that email from Patreon, it's like, Hey, you have this much support this month on my ma right? Oh, no, don't keep waking up on Saturday.

Yeah, and I'll be honest, I don't even know what that number is. Like, I don't either. Well, no, no, you're like your Patreon. Oh, the what you're making today? Sorry, I switched ears on you a little bit there. What you're making today? I don't ask I don't want to know. I mean, I guess I could go out and look to see how many I think it's on the page. Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want it for me. This is for me, it would ruin it a little bit like I love, I feel free to come and do what I do. And I don't have to worry about the production or the edits or how the system works or where it gets hosted or any of those kinds of things. I get to hang out with you for you know, 90 Well, let's say 100 minutes on the weekend. That's a lot. That's more than almost anybody else on the planet gets with you that kind of dedicated time and I like it. So the I don't want to know well, the

other thing I wanted to ask is because this show is value for value enabled. If we wanted to we could give you a split of the massive amounts of crypto that are coming. Now you don't want that either. All right. The answer is yeah,

it No, I'm glad that you check. Like, I'm really glad you ask, right That, to me that shows an enormous amount of respect that you're like, hey, and you keep asking. And if I said, You know what? It's probably time. You know, and I think you'd be okay with that. Because you've offered before and I've been the one who's been like, Nah, don't worry about you keep it, let's, let's improve the program. Let's do what it takes for you. I mean, your full time gig and my full time gig are completely different. And I just, I feel more comfortable not getting it right now. Now, if you made a million bucks, Oh, great. Somebody, just, Gosh, darn it. 70. Staff didn't, I shouldn't say stop doing that. Keep doing that. Keep doing that for Dave. But, but I want, I want you to have what you need to be able to continue. And Nuno thank you for that. Yes, thank you. I want you to have what you need to be able to do to feel like you can continue to invest in what you're doing, especially around the show.

Yeah, the it's fun, I enjoy it. And yeah, I will kind of like Randy right, if there comes a point where you're like, you know, there's one thing to have, you know, something that's kind of abrasive in a way like, this isn't really way wanted. And then there are paper cuts, that you're like, you know what, that's really bugging me. I know, it's a little thing, but it bugs me a lot. And that's it's hard. I would not want I'm glad paper cuts heel, because if they didn't, oh my god, I'd be going crazy. You know, so. So yeah, so the bottom line is we kind of wrap up this, you know, I knew was going to be a good subject with with CO hosts, we've learned here, check with, you know, when you pick a co host check with their family, not only can they, you know, show up on whatever schedule it is, so figure out what schedule is gonna work for everybody, and then put it on the schedule. I know it's not that way. Now. podcasters roundtable is kind of coming back. But for the longest time podcasters roundtable with every two weeks at 730 on Thursday. And so I just knew it was on my calendar. And so that helps if you can just say, Hey, we're gonna record and whatever the schedule is, for X amount of time as well, because that's another one where you go into record a 30 minute podcast, and you come out three hours later. And your significant others like I thought that was gonna be a half hour, you're like, Yeah, okay. So set the schedule, figure out like Randy was talking about, he's the back end guy, you know, who's going to be the promotion person who's going to be the editor, who's you know, who owns it. I had a thing this week. It's weird, where one half of the team owns the RSS feed in the Lipson account, and the other half owns the website. And so the person that was that had the Lipson feed was like, Hey, how do I stop the show? from going to the website, because he had some sort of plugin that was reading the feed, I go, Yeah, you'd have to change your feed. And if you do that, you lose your audience. And it was just, I was like, Oh, here we go, again, man, Ernie and Bert aren't getting along. It's like so in. And of course, you can set up expectations. And then, you know, life happens, you know, you could have the perfect schedule and the perfect time. And then a baby comes along, and they're like, Okay, I can't do Thursday's anymore. And I can only do, you know, one a month, not for a month, then you got to go by. That's where we say, not only do you set your expectations, but think about like, what happens if somebody wants to quit? Like in Randy's case, if Randy quit? Does he lose his 5050? Part of the money? That's a that's an interesting question. So just think about all the worst case scenarios, and that's when he like, but I've known, you know, Skippy since kindergarten, where we're not going to do Oh, my God, I'm here to tell you. So and even even with, you know, the guys with the website and the feed, they might have agreed on something and somebody's just like, Yeah, I'm not gonna honor that. So it's, it's tricky. But the more you can do up front, the better. So I do want to put something in the chat room. I am rebranding the podcast radio show. Because the name only makes sense when you go, you know, I grab a random podcast and see how long you can hang on. So it's horrible for SEO. It's hard to find in podcast apps. And so I have a bunch of domains. So I looked at the ones that I had, that would be a decent fix. So one is improved my podcast, make your podcast better, I hope podcasters podcaster first impression, and podcast polish, which somebody pointed out that it looks like podcasts polish. And I was like, oh, and I was like so maybe that's not I had podcast whisperer. I own that domain. But there's a guy that does a show. Here's a fun one. There's a guy that does a show called podcast whisperer, and he hasn't done an episode and about it. year and a half. And so I went to his RSS feed because of course, he didn't have a website, emailed the, you know, the email in the feed said, hey, you know, I'm thinking of doing this, you know, wanted to kind of get your blessing Are you done with your show? And if you aren't done with your show, can I buy your feed? You know, because you got people there in nothing's zero. So I'm still kind of but the other thing is I thought about that name. That name makes now make sense now, because of the dog whisperer. Right? That's I think we're there was the Ghost Whisperer with Jay Mohr and Jennifer Love Hewitt, that was a TV show that nobody watched. So the whole whisper thing, but I was like, I'm not sure everybody gets the Whisper. Like, if you're not familiar with, and I think the dog whisperer got in trouble for being a jerk of some sort. But he, there were rumors that he wasn't a great guy. So I took that one off the list. But if you have another name that you're like, No, you should call it this. I should do that. And I'm also renaming leading the bleeding. Another one that makes sense. And here's so I thought about this, both those shows were not supposed to be real shows leading the bleeding was like, I want to do this until I figured out how to do crypto. And that took one episode. And so I'm kind of bringing it back. And I gave it a little wider name so I can expand out of that. Chris Nessie asks a question, does Lipson still have a link for listener survey? I would have to dig it up. The answer is yes. It's a really short survey. But the thing that always makes me scratch my head on this is all the only person that can get your answers is Rob Walsh, who will then share them with you. And I was like, why is Rob in the middle of that mix? It should be you know, and it's that was just a demographic thing that was like, you know, age, sex income. Favorite Beatle? I don't know what else was on the survey. But it was really quick. It was it was much more for advertising then than anything.

Dan's asking, Dan's asking, you're gonna change the format with this name change?

Yeah, I actually, I was talking from Mark from podcast branding.co. Because that's half the reason I haven't changed the name. I love the artwork, and what it's going to be, because there are times, especially on the early shows, man, I sounded like such a jerk. I really, it was just because the whole thing, and my whole thing was like, that's my first impression. I'm like, Well, you know, you can give feedback without, you know, being mean about it. And he said, has this ever brought you any clients? And I go, No, no, I said, I brought me one to the podcast review show. And that's when I actually thought about, like, maybe I just need to shut this down, you know? But no, it's got to be the same thing. The only difference is, it will be a first impression. After about 20 seconds, like I'll listen to it, I'll take some notes. I thought about doing a like, he's like, listen to the whole episode and then say, here's what I like. But that's the podcast review show this whole thing is first impression. So it's just gonna be a slightly kinder, gentler. If you listen to the last episode, we had the guy on last week he came on and wanted some exposure for a show for signal something, I forget the name of it. And that show was not my favorite. And so I just was like, Okay, well, you know, this was confusing, I didn't understand this. This didn't make me want to listen to anything. But I appreciate the fact that you did this in this so I always try to do if you're you know in a relationship with anyone it's always good to start off with it you know, you are so handsome and awesome and you know you provide for my family but you're really horrible at taking out the trash there's always a butt in there somewhere. And then you you learn to listen for the buck because you do realize that's where you like so it's like oh, so that just negates everything you said nice about me but that would work so yeah, it's I kind of enjoy it in a weird kind of way if I'm in the right mood and it's a short show it's not really long and you know I've got it now but what I what I'm not probably going to do is do it as a video I added that and I was like wait this show supposed to not take any time and you just added video. I don't know Jimmy You look like you're in deep thought.

I do like a couple thoughts of mine and then some stuff in the chat as well. Any any thoughts to leaving at podcast radio show Colin, how to improve your podcast. In other words, you keep the branding, but but maybe put an explanation in there. Have you thought I haven't thought

about that? That might I forget what the actual name is because I put a tagline on it. Because I was like this nobody knows what it is

how to improve your podcast competes with school of podcasting by the way, right same kinda. Yeah, sort of right even Improve my podcast, which is one of your options is a little bit of a competition for your, what's the difference between the two?

Yeah, the difference between the two is yeah, the podcast radio show colon reviews and first impressions of your podcast. So that's the title, which kind of does explain what it is that oh, maybe I just I just know when you search for this A, I need to go I guess an apple or go into Google and search for like, podcast reviews. And see if I come up. But

Kyle is saying, you know, you could you could brand it based on the school podcasting by calling it podcasts study hall. I like that idea. Or podcasts or detention, I would not recommend you go negative. Yeah, title, right, keep keep it positive. Or you could you could get some element of mentoring in there you could get, although that doesn't, because you're really just You're, you're really just listening and giving some advice, you know, yeah. It's tough because you've, you've branded it on a expectation, like, how long can I hold on? I mean, that was that was the original, which may or may not be a lot of people may go, oh, boy, that's that doesn't feel good. You know?

Yeah, it was it is that's kind of a negative connotation that hey, there's a really good chance this is gonna suck. Yeah, and that's because, well, there's a really good chance it's gonna suck. Not as bad as it was when I started that show. Probably, I don't know, four years ago, maybe longer. There were a lot of really bad shows.

Well, what's the intent is the intent to actually help someone I'm not I'm not judging you. By the way. I'm not judging your motives. Goodness. So don't take it that way. But it's gonna sound like it for just a second. Yeah. Was it too? Was it for that? Was it did it come out of an honest like, I really want to listen to people's podcasts and then give some advice, or did it come out of the, the the train wreck? Like, let's get the entertainment side of things. Let's listen to a few podcasts and see how much of a train wreck they are. Because, you know, people love dirty laundry, right? Oh, yeah. They love it. So what what do you think when you think of the honestly, when you think of this? What was your intent? Maybe a little bit of both? I don't know. But what do you think?

Well, originally, the thing that surprised me is I didn't think I would find shows that were like, just like needs a lot of work. See now the old me would say horrible. Yes. Now I say they need a lot of work. So I could

or could you could improve in some.

Yeah. And we, everybody's kind of chiming in on this. And this is what Mark said. He said, You know, people that know you get the show. He goes as the problem is the people that don't know you. If they think you're a jerk, they're not going to join the school of podcasting. They're like, That guy's a jerk. So that's what I'm trying to do a more kinder, gentler, keep the theme. You know, Randy says the suckiness is fun. It is. You know, love that if it's bad. He says it's bad. Many won't do that. And that's when I originally did the show. I did it to test the show to test the media was Pyne cast, which was years ago, did it for a month that I went to stop. And like people on Facebook came up with no, you have to keep going with this. Because you're the only people you're the only person that's saying what everybody else is thinking. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I get that. But the question is, is it bringing me any leads? And there are a couple of things I've thought about maybe turning it into some sort of club. Like when you join the Club, I'll review your show. It'll be public, and then you stay in the club, kind of like this with the awesome supporters. Yeah. And then and then those people can chime in. I've, I've thrown that idea out a few times. And I've had people go, so I have to listen to more podcasts. And I'm like, I already got enough. And I was like, okay, so

Well, Dan's got a good idea, too. Is there a reason not to merge it in the school podcasting feed? For example, there's already multiple format videos of this YouTube feed and I thinking like, you could have a podcast rodeo extra. The whiskey guys that I listened to they do they have a regular show that's two hours long and then they do an extra extra that's 35 minutes long, two totally different shows in the same fee. Not everybody's for that but gives the listener the choice. Do I want to listen to this or not? I think the cigar authority guys do that as well. Their after show goes into the same I think goes into the same feed or putting it on the end of school of podcasting as because it's supposed to be quick and you could you could just tag it onto the and have a podcast rodeo segment that you do that ends up at the end of it you could say at the beginning Hang of the show Hey, we're gonna do a rodeo segment today at the end of it he told the end You know, people that maybe listen to school, podcasting. Yeah. Dance go Marv

has an idea. Why not keep the name but make it a private podcast for people that you know? Oh, that's an interrupt because here's the thing I need to I need a show to play with Apple subscriptions. I don't have any I've never played with that system. And that just got introduced into Libsyn. Like you can now submit your show to Apple subscriptions from within Lipson and I was like, I gotta find something to play with here. The School of podcasting for H Koloff. You know, I've seen I've had a lot of people say this, I've honestly learned a lot of how not to do a show on the radio show. That's true. And Randy has a great question, what do I want to do? I want it to bring me leads, I want it to bring me consulting. And so that's where I didn't realize the tagline was already there. The tagline does make it pretty obvious what the show is about. So maybe I won't change it. And maybe I'll just be a kinder, gentler Dave and be a little more. Try not to be so mean. But it's it's and I usually explain like the one guy on the last show. He just had the mic really, really close. And so every time he breathed, you could hear his you know, and I was like, Dude, you sound like, you know, Darth Vader's cousin, you know. So there's an easy way to fix that. Just back off the mic, turn on the compression. You know, that whole nine yards. Daniel says I've started hating when feeds combined to different shows. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that in the same feed. I switched to live streaming. And then download only Yeah, I liked the idea of maybe a sneak peek. I might make a promo, like if I do a rodeo. Like if I do an episode, make a quick 15 second clip, and then on the school of podcasting and say, Hey, this is here. Yeah, so Yeah, kinda. So the difference is, what's the difference between them? The old and the new is? Wow, that's really horrible, too. Okay, that needs some improvement. That's that's the difference. Now everybody knows. It's kind of like when I say that needs improvement. Everybody goes, Oh, it's horrible. Okay. In the same way that if I say, well, the person said the N word, you just said you just heard the N word in your head. So it's, it's that kind of not that boy, you know what, maybe not a good example. I don't want to bring race into this discussion. But yeah, let's see. Nuno says the main reason for listening to the podcast radio show is that you're not my mom. Exactly. Yeah.

Everybody can take that though. A lot of interesting

ideas, though. Yeah. When some people can I did have I almost quit the show. Because I had one person that just came at me and said, You're mean and nasty. And you know, you've discouraged me and as a teacher, the last thing I want to do is discourage somebody. Right? Right. And so I was like, yeah, he had so

a good self aware moment of like, okay, what am I love this conversation, by the way, and I think, lots of podcasters need to have it about their own show if like, first of all, what am I trying to do? I spent all last year with home gadget geeks thinking about this, what am I trying to do? And am I doing what I'm trying to do? Or has it because sometimes, you start these things, and they take on a life of their own. And then for various reasons, they morph and become something different. And you have to ask the question, am I still doing what I intended to start with? And if you're not well, okay, let's see if we can rein that back in. Maybe get back to a point where we just don't you know, I think with home gadget geeks, I got a little too concerned about some things that I was like, Yeah, I don't, I don't need to be as concerned about that. Just to be honest, and you got to do some mental things here in the Mellon to change some stuff around, get the noodle all straightened out, and then go, Okay, this is why I'm doing these things. And that takes some effort, right? That takes some work and maybe a little coaching, right? You might need someone who you who you respect to say, Hey, I'm doing this, can you hold me accountable to this? Yeah, that's what a coach that's what a coach does. Well,

Nuno says I've had two reviews from Dave and only valid opinions. You just need to know that not everyone is gonna think it's fabulous. And that's, that's the key. Randy says, you know, some people need to be disc. So, it is it's a tough balancing act. That's, that's the fun thing. About It is interesting to see. You know, we're talking with Randy about how, you know, hearing another opinion, there was a question on Reddit this morning, about theme music. The guy's like, where do I find the music? Do I need Theme Music? cetera. And, man, people were ready to die on that hill like nobody's business. You know, like, No, you need theme you absolutely has to be it and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Wow, I've never seen this over theme music go to me. I'm like, you know, we both kind of said, you know, theme music is kind of fun. It sets the mood, etc. But these people were like, No, you can't launch without theme music. And I was like Marc Maron used ACD sees Live Wire. Now the very, like the first five episodes until I think finally somebody said, Mark, that's illegal. And me quit. Yeah. And it says, Thanks to me, I can only hear music for the sake of nothing. When I hear theme music. I had somebody hired me to. To do that. They gave me a promo. The promo was like four minutes long, and parts of it are really good. But the first 30 seconds are I can only say it sounds like it's from some sort of New Age ish, kind of like, Oh, it's 30 seconds. And I'm like, is somebody gonna start talking soon? And Mike, this is a promo. And I said, Is this from a video? Because it really sounded like, they'd had like panning, you know, wide escapes of, you know, mountains and stuff. And they're like, No, So

music is that is such a, such a lightning rod, in the in the industry of doing it not doing it. You know, I think for a lot of folks that grew up listening to talk radio, which always had bumper music, right. And they want to recreate that same kind of radio feel to it. I think a lot of podcasting is based on the way we've that radio did things in the past. And not all of it, not all of it, but some of it. And I love this conversation that we're having around, you know, taking your radio show and thinking about it in different ways. And I think we still have some, I think we still have some genres to invent using this podcast medium that didn't necessarily exist before. And you know, the Listen, the interview formats been done, right? So the solo format has been done. I'm not saying I have any ideas. I'm just thinking we've got all this technology? Could we do something different with it? Could we could we think about other ways to do it that necessarily aren't the same ways? We've been doing it all the time? And who's who's doing that who's out there creating unique, it's very dangerous. It's very risky, because you're going to try something new. And not everybody's going to like it. You might even have some folks who say, you know, oh, now that's not podcasting. Because podcasting is this. Yeah, you know, whatever, even though those are the same people that say you can do anything you want, as long as it conforms to what I think podcasting is right. Have any color model T that you want, as long as it's black. So, you I think there's still some, there's still some formats out there that we haven't even begun to begun began to explore. And I'd love to see some folks take some, you know, take some risks on it and see, see what pops out.

I think it's bigand have begun to do

be gunning, yes. Beginning?

Well, it's funny, you bring that up, because this morning, as I was kind of thinking about this show. I was like, Okay, we're two weeks into 2023. It seems like at least if you read, if you read the papers, it sounds like everybody's kind of in a wait and see. Like we're all worried about this recession that's coming on. So nobody's doing this and things are backing off and people are being laid back. And I'm like, I wonder what to expect in 2023. I will say this. If you have the bright idea of I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to have chat GBT write an episode, and then I'll have a fake voice read it. That's been done already. That's been done. So first of all, like, and the cool thing about this is that none of it is done by a human. Yeah, first of all, those usually suck those don't need work. Those suck. They suck bad. They're awful. Now they could be better now with Chet D, but them just like, yeah, yeah. So well, I

put How do you? How do I find this in chat? GPT I put in how do I find a good co host for my podcast? And it gave me seven points, right? Look for someone with constant complementary skills. Consider your audience. Look for someone with a similar style or tone. Look for someone who is reliable and committed network and and look online. Consider a guest host test the waters that's all actually really now that's just the headings. It's got. It's got a few little things in there. That's good advice is it by the way created by humans like if we think that, I mean, this is where the like they're just scraping the web and then putting this together in ways that makes it's just an advanced Google search, guys, it's really all it is, for the most part. Here's

the thing, guys. I thought about this. During the week, I thought, you know, this is one thing that has me worried, though, with Google, or for those of us in the know, Google Play, you know, I like the French pronunciation of French is that eventually, people are going to go why as chat GPT. And it said this, you get kind of one answer, where Google's like, well, here's some things you can check. And you decide. Yeah, and when Microsoft invest 10 million into it, which I hear they did, like, I get worried about, you know, big brother's going to give you the answer that it wants you to hear and not the best answer. And I'm like, huh, that could be spooky. It Well,

boy, we haven't even thought about the ethics behind thinking about an AI with an agenda. Right? I mean, that is so now. I mean, obviously, on Google, when you do a Google search, there are people paying for their, for their, you know, the search results to be influenced by them, as opposed to what naturally is supposed to be there. Right. This is this is the thing. I think sometimes we think, oh, yeah, this is all you know, this is all natural and whatever. But what if you took Chet GPT and began to train it with a bias based on what people are paying for it? That's what's coming next. Yeah, the next thing that's, if we think, oh, yeah, this is all pure, whatever, blah, blah. No, no, we're talking about paying big money to be able to influence these kinds of AI results. So it brings back when I'm like, hey, what's the best I just had? My guest host on home gadget geeks or guest on it was a guy from channels DVR, and they make a DVR type software. And if I went into chat, GBT and said what are the best DVR? You know? solutions for me that are out there. You better believe people will pay to be at the top of that list. Right? Oh, and so will Siri.

I don't even move my wrist.

The series was just jealous that I was talking about chat GBT. So that's that day is coming.

And Dan says Don't people do this with Google Now. Anyway, that's true. I think it's a little more obvious, though. Because it says this is an ad. This was a paid for results. That's why it's at the top. Yeah, but it's

in small letters. And you may click on it, you think like, oh, yeah, because I'm because it's on the internet. It's true. You know, and then you're like, check, are we checking our sources? There was I mean, I saw I ran a bunch of my own stuff, you know, who is Jim Collison? Oh, yeah. And right in it came back and said I was a Gallup certified strengths coach, which I am not now I do programs for Gallup certified strengths coaches. I'm I, I'm a community manager for 14,000 certified strengths coaches around the world, but I myself am not a Gallup certified strengths coach. He got it wrong. Very wrong. Yeah. From that from that perspective. So the check your sources you got if you're using this, and listen, I'm using it a lot right now, because I want to see how this thing goes. This is the best AI I've seen yet. But there's a really good example of how it was wrong right out of the gate. By the way, you can give it the right answer. So I said I am not a Gallup certified coach. And I said, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I got that wrong, which is really weird, right? Yeah, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. We'll correct this. So then it rewrote the output with that correction. Okay, so you think that's awesome. We can influence AI? Well, I could if that's the case, I could like Wikipedia. I could go in and influence it with the wrong information Mr. People.

My favorite check in that my favorite Steve Martin joke I want to have a kid so I can talk wrong around it. And then the first day it goes to school and it says May I Momo dogface banana patch get that kid especial test right Yeah, well, you know what's not artificial? Our awesome supporters I just realized we have not talked about our awesome supporters have done our this is why need to give you x well see you said you don't want access to Patreon. Oh, no, we will come back to our favorite patron here but ask the podcast coach runs on pod page. And Lipson for the record if you're wondering, and you know what our favorite person our will go back one slide. Because I got one. Connie from New Vision Podcast. I'm gonna guess that new vision podcast.com And actually technically that's wrong because she's a $10 supporter and I only spotlight $20 of borders. But today Connie, it's all about you. So thank you Connie for being a $10 Awesome supporter. If you'd like to tripod page, check it out a tripod page.com If you need more Jim Collison and who doesn't For the average guy.tv Go check out home gadget geeks. And if you want to start a podcast well when you think podcasting things School of podcasting, by the way, that's not working. Nope, nobody's thinking about I need to go up to somebody go, Hey, podcasting they go school of podcasting, Mike, I don't think that's working. But it's my it's my Vulcan mind meld. Like when you think podcasting thing School of podcasting, if you'd like to be an awesome supporter, go over to ask the podcast coach.com/support. Not only can you, you know, be an awesome supporter, you can buy Dave's book, you can donate on PayPal, or buy me a coffee or something of that nature. But thanks to all of our awesome supporters, for your support, because my yearly bill for stream yard just came through this week. And I was like 400 wide is like, Oh, well, thank God, we have awesome supporters to pay for that. So. But that was one thing that I was like, Huh? Because I was actually thinking of trying another platform and playing and stuff. But on the other hand, I love stream yard. So and that's why I bought a year's worth because it's cheaper when you do that. And that was one that I was like, Yeah, I'm definitely not leaving this platform. So

can I Yeah, so I just typed in who are the hosts of Ask the podcast coach and when can I listen to them to chat GBT? This is the answer. I got back asked the podcast coach is a podcast hosted by Dave Jackson and Jim Collison. So I got that right. Dave Jackson is a podcast consultant and coach who has been podcasting since guess when 2005 Oh, there you go. Is that right? Yeah. Got it, right. He's also the host of school of podcasting, and the podcast rodeo show. So that's a pretty, that's pretty good. Jim Carlson is a technology enthusiast with a background in it. He is also the host of home gadget geeks and gallops called the coach podcast together they provide this is a little bit of the value of this, like if you're struggling for your about section on your web, about who you are. So this is what it says about us. Together, they provide valuable information and tips on how to start grow and improve your podcast. I'm sure that came from your branding on your site, because that's what you say. Right? Yeah. Right. Start grow and improve your podcasts as you say it and that in that way is

plan, launch and grow. Oh,

okay. Well, so it's It's morphing a little bit, right. And sometimes you might have thought you could change that you could change that right? You could go in and change. The show is is released on a weekly basis and can be found on the major podcast platforms get the get the buzzer ready, like Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts and more. Should be a website. Yeah, by the way, it's not doing websites yet. But I think eventually there would be some can be found at Ask the podcast coach.com. Right. You can check out their website, or social media for the schedule. And for new episodes, so we'd give it the buzzer, because it's not being specific about right side of where to go. Right. But other than that, not a bad. Not a bad paragraph to start with. If you were thinking about oh, I need to improve my About section. What's the internet saying about me? Might be a good place to start and then modify it. I don't know. What do you think?

I'm just surprised that knew who I was. There are a lot of Dave Jackson's in the world. You know what I mean? But I guess under the filter of Ask the podcast coach and knows who I am or whatever. But

again, the question was, who are the hosts of Ask the podcast coach and when can I listen to them? You know that it didn't answer the second question. It didn't say I can you can listen to them live every Saturday morning. 930. Central 1030 Eastern at Ask the podcast coach.com/live didn't say that.

It was a fine helping of word salad, though. You know, it was yeah, it was good. It wasn't bad. It's accurate stuck.

If I think if you're stuck coming up with in your own about section it got me thinking as I was going through seeing what it knew about me. I think it gave me some ideas like oh, maybe I should grab some of this and change my own about because it's a it is a good summary of what the internet thinks I am. Right.

Who see that's interesting, because one of the things I'm always I don't know how you do, like how do you check your brand? You don't I mean, like, like, what are people saying about the school of podcasting? No, right on because I know in the, in the early days again, I had somebody who would tell me the truth. So in this case, that was Paul collagen. And we're talking one time he goes, Do you want to know what people are saying about the school of podcasting? I'm like, do I and he goes, here's what they say. He goes, the good news is everything you need, you can find it the school of podcasting, my great he goes, you want to know what the bad thing is. And I go what he goes, everything you need, you can find it the school of podcasting because there's too much stuff and they can't find what they need. And I was like, Oh man, that's great feedback. And so I've I've since I should if I wanted to have one like when you sign up here is how you podcast like step one, and instead of always had three tracks. Like I have no budget, I have some budget and budget is not an issue. And then I just go Give me the stuff that you have to decide. But I do have a roadmap of my Hey, If this is you do this if this is you do that. So I still kind of don't, you know, I've found that what I think is a happy medium. But I think it'd be interesting if you could use that to like, I don't know, find out what people are. What are people saying about me behind closed doors? So

I went low will a summary and internet summary is kind of what it is. Yeah. It's creepy, because when I, you know, I said, I asked for some stuff about me, like I said, and I said, Hey, I'm not. So I said, Jim Collins is not a Gallup certified strengths coach. And here's how it responded, I apologize for the confusion, it seems I have provided you with incorrect information, then it rewrote it and corrected it. And at the very end, it said, I said, at the end, I said, Oh, that's correct now and it says, I'm glad the information is now accurate, and then it rewrote it again.

That's crazy. Well, the other thing is, Adam Curry was talking about this, that you know how it types it out, like word by word. So it looks like somebody goes, That's total horse pucky. He goes, they could just pop it on the screen, he goes, but it makes it look more human and blah, blah, blah. So it makes it look

more like a chat. Right. That's what it is chat. GPT. So like you're it's trying to mimic this chat concept. They're also one of the nice things about it is they're also very aware that past AI solutions have gone sideways. Let's just say sometimes they've gotten a little mean, sometimes they've gotten a little racist, sometimes they've gotten a little sexist, right? Because the internet's that way, right? All those things exist out there on the internet, they've got to solve for that they have to figure out a way to set all those those ethics in there, make it a kind person, don't make him a racist, don't make him a sexist, don't make a mean, they're, they're really, really aware of that with this solution. And we may be making some good progress in that area. I haven't seen any of that in the work, I've probably done hundreds of searches. Now, as I've been working through this. It's really good for what I do day for Clifton Strengths and strengths development, it is really good at that like say, Hey, I am thinking about doing this kind of job. And I have these kinds of skills and these kinds of strengths. And it will do some amazing writing that's like, that's coach like, in there. And so it's that's an area they've, they've tuned it really, really well. So it's kind of impressive. You're like, well, that's kind of interesting. Now, again, it's a summary of what people have said on the web, right? So, you know, but imagine if you read everything that was on the web about a particular topic, and then could filter it in a way that was helpful. No, that actually you might get some stuff out of there. That's helpful.

Yeah, that's, it's gonna be I thought about this today. I'm like, I need to write down I keep, I don't write it in a lot. But I have a journal, the websites pen zu P and z u.com. And I thought I should write down I should make a journal entry like, Hey, I just discovered chat, ag because I know in 10 years, you're gonna like, Oh, and remember that. Oh, my God. It's like so also, I just realized we have the sound effect. Thanks to coach Dave for the what is that is the correct terminology a Super Chat. Super Chat, I think is what's so thank you kind sir. Yeah, Coach, Dave, appreciate that. So

he's fun to to know, we're adding value that's value for value right there that as

well. And PRX came out saying they are now value for value enabled. And Adam Curry was like, he was excited until he really looked into it. Cuz like, if you have a new podcast app, you could boost right now and send whatever you wanted to. And he goes, that's not what this is. They have like, it's streaming some sort of something. But there's no booths. And it's, it's like all those other things. It's kind of sad. That's one thing I wish more chi hoped to see companies do this in 2023. So when they say were adding transcripts, okay, use the spec that's been created for that in RSS. When they say I'm doing this, use the spec that's been created. And like, you know, Spotify came out oh, we have chapters. Now you just have to format your show notes like this. Why not use the spec that's already in the RSS thing? No, we're gonna do our own thing. And I'm like, so anyway, so is that a question? Have a question? Do you archive your lives somewhere? Oh, yeah, ask the podcast. coach.com has all of our stuff. The videos are often because I was worried about it messing up my YouTube channel because most of my YouTube videos are like five minutes long and then this one comes in and it's 90. So most of them are is a private unlisted, so they're still there. They're on the the episode page on Ask the podcast coach. So if you want to watch the video, but most of this you can listen and get the gist of it. And you don't have to worry about actually having to watch it. So Tim O'Brien Good morning, folks. He says, I owe you a because of my podcast or he but he doesn't owe me a t shirt, or a coffee mug. I got that this week. So Tim, thank you so much. And I'm drawing a blank. Find a podcast about he does podcasts where he goes out. So if you want to find a podcast about dog sled racing or whatever, he could do that. Lou, do you know what this is? Jim? It's the lightning round. Oh, but I like us to hurry. I'm considering blending a rumble studio. Yeah, asynchronous interviews with our monthly lives pushing those down the same feed anyone ever been to format? The same feed like that? People have

it, try it and see. Try it and you'll get some feedback.

Yeah, yeah. That's one where I'm like, if it's the same topic, you know. We'll skip that. One. Cuyahoga suggestion. Maybe I should should rebrand the podcast, radio show. Podcast study hall. We did do that one. Okay, good. And I talked about that when we hit them all. So awesome. What's coming up? Yeah, what's coming up on home gadget geeks,

John Maddox from channels. He's the CEO and founder of channels. It's a DVR solution, if you want to record TV over the air streaming some of those kinds of things, joins me he's just a good friend of the show comes on. At the end of the show. We talked a little bit about VR, I got a new VR headset. And so I've been trying to think how is this going to fit into the podcasting world. And so I've been doing some testing with that, as well. And so it'll be released a little bit later today, home gadget geeks.com.

VR have only tried once, and I said, this is probably going to make me sick. And it did. And that was my experiment. It was some skateboard thing I was writing. And I was like, Yeah, I have to take Dramamine to get on planes and stuff. And I was like, I'd love to get it just for the exercise stuff. I've seen some really, you know, he mentioned

at the end of the show a different set of glasses that are you that you can use it you can put not Google Glasses, this is kind of a new run at VR. And so we talked about that right at the end of the show that you might find that interesting. This because he he wasn't a fan of VR either. And he's like, but I would use these glasses. So you can check it out on gadget geeks.com,

nice on the school of podcasting. I'm going to be sharing a story, how I almost spent 1500 bucks. And I asked myself a couple of quick questions and went, Oh, yeah, let's not do that. So I'll be expanding on that. And I think I'm going to add if I have enough time, I'm going to revisit the topic of anchor, and why I still don't like it. But it's not for the old reasons, but it's for new reasons. Because people have I thought you

were gonna say, I'm just I thought you were gonna be like, and now I have 100% on No, no,

no, but I don't hate them as much, but I have acknowledged that half the reason I disliked them is for things in the past that you don't do any more. And that's not fair. So thanks to everyone in the chatroom for hanging up. And be sure to like and subscribe and smash the bell and all that other stuff. And we will see you Yeah, right now do it quickly because we're going to end we'll see you next week.