Apple Video Podcasts Reality Check

Welcome And Quick Setup Chaos

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Ask the Podcast Coach for April 11th, 2026.

SPEAKER_05 0:20

Let's get ready to podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

There it is. It's that music that means it is Saturday morning. It is time for Ask the Podcast Coach, where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting.com, and joining me right over there is the one and only Jim Cullison from theAverage Guy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Sorry we're a little late on the on the draw this morning. We didn't get all the live stuff set up and all that, but we're there now. Yeah.

Sponsor: Podcastbranding.co

SPEAKER_02 0:55

It's always fun when you wake up on Saturday and it's like, hey, I want to we have a clip today from uh Ralphie Step Jr., the uh podcast accountants. What am I gonna blow his tagline? Um it's the pod no, it's the content creators accountant. There we go. Thank you. Ralph's in there going, Dave, I'm an awesome supporter, but I wanted to put a clip on the Rodcaster, and the Rodcaster said, You can't do that until you update my firmware. And then Ecamm and everything I talked to was like, okay, you got to upgrade. I'm like, this is not good. Like, so my my whole thing got uh my whole what is that called? My uh my workflow was your mojo. Yeah, my mojo.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Your morning mojo got it.

Sponsor:Based On a True Story Podcast

SPEAKER_02 1:38

And I and I need to get back on track, and you know, there is an easy way that'll always wake you up and get you back on track, and that is, of course, a steaming hot cup of Java, and that is brought to you by our good friend Mark over at podcastbranding.co. Uh, I have hired Mark again. I'm working on um the Fix My Podcast show that should be launched very soon. As soon as that artwork is chosen, we'll be good to go. So I am not just saying this because, you know, Mark is paying me. I'm paying this because, hey, I'm not how what was that one commercial? I'm not just a customer, I'm the president. Well, I'm I'm not just uh uh shill, I'm actually a customer. And uh I've seen Mark's work, and it's not just artwork. He could do your whole website, he can do a PDF, he can do business cards. He's been doing this for quite some time, over 30 years in the design field, and he's closed in on 10 years. Well, actually, he went over 10 years, I think, for his podcast. Lots and lots of experience over there. So the deal is look, you tell him about your show and let him do the marketing stuff. Let his marketing mind go crazy and come up with the best look for you that fits your show. So when you're ready to look great, go over to podcastbranding.co or dot co. Take your pick. They both work.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Try either one. Big thanks to our good friend Dan Lefebvre over there, based on a true story, based on a true story podcast.com. Sorry, dot com. There we go. This week, brand new podcast out once upon a time in Hollywood. Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio. If you have not seen that movie, first before you go to listen to the podcast, watch the movie. It is a wacky, wacky. It's a uh Quentin Taratino movie. Very, very wacky. How close were they to it? The guest he had was like, but not in a bad way. So check it out today. Based on a true story, based on a true storypodcast.com. Once upon a time in Hollywood, watch the movie first. Dan, thanks for your sponsorship.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Yeah, that that was a wacky movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

It was very wacky. There's been a couple times I watch clips of it on YouTube, and I'm like, oh my god. I mean, that is a brad pit. He's he's pretty weird in that.

AI Tool That Removes Swearing

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Very much so. Jason Bryan checking in from Bishkek. You're making this up. This isn't a real place. Kerr Kergeistan. Bizkek Birzgeisen. It sounds like somebody, it's like, what happens when you play, you know, Bon Jovi backwards? I'm like, what? But we have uh Jim. I'm gonna spring something on you here. We have we have a topic here, and your your goal here is to tell me what problem this product is going to solve. And this person approached me about sponsoring the show, and I go, okay, so you ready? It's called Yeah, he said hitting the button. There we go. Cursecut at CursCut.com. So what what would you think this would do looking at the website here?

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Well, I imagine you would give it your audio or your transcripts and it would go through and take all the curse words out for you.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

That you would be correct, then. Yeah. So I saw this and I looked at the pricing, and for the record, I'm not getting paid for this. It's all AI, so of course, welcome. You have a free plan that gives you 2.5 credits, which will clean up about 15 minutes, it says. But here was my question.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Okay, so this solves before we talk about this.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Did they sponsor, or are you not giving them the guy asked you're giving them Yeah, I'm giving him free publicity because I I pointed out something here. So this removes curses from the show. Now, we don't curse in this show, so consequently, we don't need it. But let's say John Dremango, who curses in the boomer bunker, and he does that, and the last time I checked, John does that on purpose because that's the way he talks. It's an adult show for it's adult language for an adult show. And so my question is, does John need this tool? No, not really.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

No, well, but there could be some use cases where folks want to create a maybe a curse-free episode, right? Right where they have the they have the the the X-rated version. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Or R-rated, R-rated version. You actually just I just thought about this. Jen Briney does a version where she leaves all the F-bombs in, and that's for Patreon. And then the version that goes to the public. The difference is this thing from what I saw, because it took the episode from South Park where they said the F-word like 58 times, and it's bleeping them out. On Jen's show, for the bleep, they use a golf swing, which is hilarious when it's an F-word, because the golf swing is like shwak, which so it starts with a a a soft sound and ends with a so it kind of sounds like the word it's replacing, and it's hilarious. But I was like, I just told the guy, I said, You you might be trying to solve a problem that's not a problem. I go, because unless you have a guest, like I had Jana Marie from the Big Lash Audio show, and she swears a bit, she talks about very adult things on that show, and I said, Hey, just for the record, like, you know, you know the yeah. And so she was cool with that. And I didn't have to bleep anything out. So I I guess either A, if you wanted to do two versions of the show, one clean and one not, and it seems, at least on the South Park thing, it it cleaned it up and it bleeped it out. I wonder if you can make your own, like, could I put in a little rubber ducky kind of noise instead, instead of a beep or whatever? But I just to me, I told the guy, I go, I I think you're you're solving a problem that doesn't exist because the people that swear on their show are doing it because they want to, and they probably don't plan on editing it, because why would you purposely do something that needed to be edited out unless you wanted to do two versions of the show? So that's the thing. That's that's his target audience. Wanna wanna talk like an adult and still give a clean version to the, you know, that's it. That's his thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, not everybody's live. I mean, it's tough live. This would be tough if I was dropping F bombs, you know, every every third. I mean, I could. I don't, I choose not to. Yeah. But uh it would be tough on the live side if we did do that, you know, yeah, like you said, create a a uh clean version and then an unedited uh version. I don't think it's a bad, I don't think it's it it's very nichey though, right? I mean I think you gotta have some conditions to be met. But if you're in that if you're in that situation, I mean obviously he got asked about it before and you know, may maybe created it for somebody. But but I don't I don't think it's a bad run at something. We'll have to see how how bad it goes or how good it goes.

unknown 9:20

You know.

Apple Video Feed Sparks Concern

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah, because uh I mean on the other hand, you are paying as you go. So the only thing he has really is a one-page website that explains what it does and and that's it. And then his server to do, you know, all the AI cutting out of the naughty words. So Ralph says we could use this in the podcast morning show, because here again it's live, and he says, and someone may drop a bomb, but we don't want to release it in the replay. Yeah, that's so it's an easy way to do that. I know I use I believe it's resound.com or.fm, and it all it does is remove ums. And I can go in there and go, it removes ums and extra spaces. And I have one guy that I believe he may think he's the next Paul Harvey, because he is the king of like really dramatic pauses, and resound goes in and cuts them by half, and it's still like two seconds, which is a long time when you're sitting there. So that was the the first thing that I was like, hey, what problem is this solving? And then I had asked last night, I said, if anybody's got a question for the show, click here. And I went over this morning, I and maybe Brendan fixed it overnight. We're having a weird little glitch on Podpage right now, and we're looking into it where you can record an episode uh a voicemail, and when you hit stop, it shows the length of the voicemail was zero. But yet if I go into my dashboard, it's still there. So it kind of confuses people. But Ralph actually had an error message, so I ran out this morning and I was able to record a message, but because Ralph is a member of the school of podcasting, he was able to DM me and I edited this down. And of course, Ralph is over there with Mark on the uh podcast morning chat, and here was his question.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And my question for you, because this is kind of a bone of contention I have, with Apple doing it this way, basically the way I understand it, so that people can switch between audio and video, you're going to be Apple's going to be using your video feed for the audio. Well, that becomes an issue for some of us because my team actually produced separate things for audio and video because I really think they're two separate audiences. And that led to a pretty robust discussion the other morning on the podcasting morning chat. And I wanted to kind of continue that on Ask the Podcast Coach. What what do you feel about that? How do you feel about that? Because I honestly think there are two separate audiences. Now that's not to say that you can't cut down your audio feed to get to the point, but that said, for those of us who are doing separate audio and video edits, that's what my team does, this is going to change a dynamic. And I wanted to get your opinion on that. So I hope to see this on the show this morning.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah, thank you, Ralph. And if you hadn't figured it out, Ralph's out walking around in the morning out on the farm, hence all the birds in the background and such.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

Are they attacking him?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

It sounded really close. But he's a good thing. Ralph, we hope you're okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Thoughts and prayers.

Hosting Costs And Pricing Unknowns

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Well, here's the first thing. This doesn't exist yet. This is coming to Apple, and I my answer has been through most of this: who asked for this? What problem is this solving? And so a couple things they announced that there are I know one was ACAST and Art19 and a couple other ones. So first things first, it's weird to watch Apple kind of bumble something where they only had four people in the know, to which then all the other media hosts was like, hey, what's going on? I'll get in on that. And so I know this week Lipson finally announced that they plan on incorporating it. And the fun thing is nobody has it yet. Like when this rolled out and said, hey, you can use ACAST. I went over to ACAST. I'm like, hey, I've never used ACAS. I want to upload a video. Let's see how much they're charging. Well, that's when it's like, sorry, nope, there's there's you can't do that yet. I'm like, oh, well, I'll go over to Art19. Nope, sorry. It's like, so they're all talking about this stuff, but none of it exists yet. And what I'm dying to see is what are we going to charge for this? Because it's gonna be a lot. James Cridlin talked about this on Pod News Weekly Review on he's kind of doing what the media hosts are gonna have to do because he's nerdy like that. And it was like hundreds of files that you have to make because you're chopping this video into it. Okay, Randy says Transistor has it live. Because I know Justin Jackson is really into this. He was one of the first guys that, like, we have to compete with YouTube, and I'm like, but we're not competing with YouTube. YouTube has a competitor, it's called Rumble because it's free video that you can upload as much as you want. That's exactly what YouTube does, and then Rumble puts ads on it. That's the exact same thing. That's a competitor. But when you're like, oh, we need to compete with YouTube, okay, what do you got? Well, we're gonna roll out this video thing that's gonna, you know, double your hosting bill, if not more. Oh, and by the way, Apple's gonna charge you every time you insert something dynamically. I'm like, that's not a competitor. Like, that's like, hey, we're gonna take, you know, uh down the street, there's good old Mabel's mashed potatoes, you know, where grandma's recipe is and they make them by hand, and we're gonna compete by giving you this mashed potatoes in a box. And I'm like, yeah, that's not really a competition. So the one thing is if we go over to pricing on Transistor, let me throw my screen on here. I like Transistor, I like Captivate a little more. They're both using the same business model where you can have as many shows and such. Subscream add-ons, transcriptions. I don't see see here, this is where I go. I want to upload a video. How much is the video? And if it's 19 bucks a month, I notice that unless I'm missing something,$49 a month, live customer support, dynamic ads, podcast network site. They don't have it listed in their pricing. Well, that's it. And this is what James pointed out. Even Buzz Sprout has said, okay, we're we're willing to try this, but they're also all it seems like many of them are doing this. We have a sign-up list because what they're really doing is like, hey, we need to see if anybody really wants this. Especially when somebody says, Oh, by the way, your bill's gonna be like 80 bucks. Jim wants to know why do I like Captivate a little more? More downloads. It's that simple. Captivate, you get 30,000 downloads a month before your bill goes up. Transistor, it's 20,000. And so now if I was doing private podcasts, I might lean a little more towards transistor, but I think captivate is they're they're pretty much even, and the only thing that I saw different was Captivate gives you 10,000 more downloads a month before your bill goes up. But I don't see anybody, yeah. Randy says there are live shows on the hosting according to John Spurlock. Yeah, those are people that are beta testers. So, like the guy that used to work for Riverside, I forget his name, Steven Nobles, has a video show, and everybody's using his for like the demo. Like, hey, I want to see what this looks like and how it works. So, you know, Steven's not stupid, and that's the one thing of if I wanted to do this video thing, it might be worth the extra money because everybody's gonna be looking for video podcasts, and that's the other thing without these people being able to upload videos, whenever this video thing, I think it's in Apple now. Like if you search for something and there's a video, it'll show a little camera there, but there isn't much content in there now because everybody's at YouTube. So I'm just I'm still of the what problem does this solve? And then I heard Brian Barletta, really nice guy, the guy now behind Sounds Profitable. He's over there with Tom Webster and Podcast Movement. He was super excited because this is another way for advertisers. So anybody that had that wanted to do video advertising and they're like, well, most podcasts are audio, and maybe they're they're doing YouTube. And look, I get it, YouTube is I watch more YouTube now than I ever have, because I watch it on my lunch and I am a paid person, so I'm not getting ads. But uh to to me, I I don't know. I the the thing where first of all, I've never been listening to a podcast and thought, oh, I wish I could see what the host looked like. Unless if I was going to be honest, she sounded hot. But that's that's most of the time I'm not looking for a switch to go from back, and that's the problem, is now in theory, if somebody wants to listen to my show, they will like ask the podcast coach. If you go to video, it is unedited. So all the times and we're like, I don't know, the I hit the button, it's not working. That's in the the video version, it's in many cases cut out of the audio version. So I I am of that, I'm not quite sure what you know. I get it that we want we don't want YouTube to win and they need an alternative, and I'm like, yeah, it's it's it's called Rumble. And the last time I was over there was about probably three months ago, and it was starting to look more and more like YouTube. Like they were just blatantly ripping off the look of that. So so what that means, which is again, everything old is new again, is that either A, you have a video version, like there's a video version of this show in Spotify. Why? Because if I want video on Spotify, I have to upload it separately, and that's the other thing that has me worried, is that whoa, wait a minute. So we have breaking news. Rich Graham says my YouTube premium is going up to twenty-one bucks a month. I mean, I'll pay twelve bucks, but this is where uh it's a business strategy and it works well, and that is they throw so many ads at you you just go fine, take take my money. I can't take this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

It's unbearable. YouTube with ads is unbearable. I mean, I just I don't it's it's just the worst experience in the world. Like I can't I when I watch them on my phone now, I you know, then I'm like, yes, I'll pay anything. You know, I'll pay anything not to get all these ads. So there's like they hold they hold you a little bit of hostage there for sure.

Competing With YouTube Is A Trap

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah. I know on Spotify Brave, my friends, brave brave browser, use the brave browser. Yeah. I when I'm on Spotify, there are many times I will click a song and it'll go, oh, there's a video for this. And I will click on that and go, Oh, look, it's it's an artsy video where it's dark and I can't see anybody, or you know what I mean? It's a video. And I will go, oh, by the way, I'm at work, I'm listening to this stuff, I'm not watching it, and I'll switch it back and go on.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

So I think I think Ralph's point though, of in all this, he's saying this in chat desperately trying to get your attention. His point is that they're gonna use for the audio feed, they're gonna use the video audio. In other words, strip the you know, just strip the audio out of the video. If you have a version of video that, like you said, you would not want to upload the video for Ask the Podcast Coach and then have them strip that audio out because you do an audio edit, right? For the for that. So I mean, yeah, that's a problem. If they're gonna do that, you need to be aware that you're you're not you're not getting uh you would need to create a separate audio feed that has the that has the right thing in it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yeah, and the thing that's weird is everybody thought, well, when you switch to audio, if it's got both a link to my audio and to my video, it will switch to the audio, and everybody went, Well, how is it gonna be in sync? Because they're two different things, and that's when people said, No, no, they're just gonna use the audio from the video, and that's when everybody went, What, what, what? So that's where again you will I will, you know, if I do video, I would just do what I do now. And put ask the podcast coach video and meaning watch this one. And then if they later get a chance to, you know, switch, okay, but you're you're not if if you want to listen to it, I have a better audio version over there. It's made for people. I know last week we did something, and you even said, oh, this is like tremendous audio, because we were stuck in the middle of something. Yeah, I cut that out, right, for the audio version, because it was. I was like, I don't want to waste people's times. So it's uh and again, who is asking for this? So Brian Barletta, it's the advertisers, and when we make features, nothing against Brian Barletta. Look, I I like Brian, he's a good guy, and if you want to know about advertising and podcasting, he's a great resource. Yeah, and so Ralph says, Yeah, it'll have to use the video file if you're going to be able to switch back and forth, and that's what everyone is missing. Yeah, that's I think some people miss this. I uh you know, I've I'd mentioned this at the beginning, and that's when I went, Who's asking for this? Like it's just, you know, Chris from castahead.net, YouTube is where people are trained to go and watch video. Yes. Amen, brother. Podcasters need to understand that the content they put there is intended for YouTube viewers, otherwise, you're squashed. Yeah. So yeah, I apparently I need to go look at my YouTube premium because everybody else is paying$18.99. And I'm like, okay, I probably am. That's just one of those I don't I, you know, I shouldn't say this out loud, but they could kind of charge me almost anything because the experience is so horrible. When I'm on when I have my Dave Jackson hat on, I I don't have ads. And when I have my pod page hat on and I go to YouTube, now they're putting two pre-rolls in, and I was like, wait, I usually I would just wait for the skip button. Now the skip button in many cases is not there. Ralph is asking, so the question is, should we be editing our audio to be more like video and get to the point? Is this the time to make the audio tighter? I've always thought this was backwards because in audio, it's hey, it's Dave Jackson, your award-winning Hall of Fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson, right? I don't do that on YouTube, but yet YouTube, because of the algorithm, I will get discovered more where I should be saying, Hey, here's who you're looking at. But I don't. I've always thought that was backwards anyway.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

I don't know. Well, the the hangup, Dave, while you're thinking about that, the hang up rate is if you try to uh uh edit your video like you do your audio, you get jump cuts for sure, right? That's the big problem with video. Yeah, and so we're always hesitant to, you know, the ums and the ahs, and you know, you get some really weird-looking video. By the way, that that may not be the case too much longer. I think AI is gonna fit be able to fix that for us here pretty quick. Yeah, but you get these jump cuts, and so that's the real difference, right? Is you go in there and you're like, do you want to produce that audio that has all the jump cuts in it? By the way, the pros put B-roll in there instead of you know, right to cover those things. But it's a lot of work, and so yeah, you're gonna, you know, if this is gonna be the case, if this is the way it's gonna roll out, if this is gonna be the the way it is, you gotta make that decision of like do what do I, you know, do I do do the editing? Do I have a clean version of it? I think this is a case you really gotta dig in, one, make sure you understand what's happening. Two, you're gonna have to make some decisions on what you how you choose to do it, right? How how what you're gonna do. Can you influence the mighty apple to change? Probably not, for the most part, right? Can you complain about it? Absolutely. You can play, you can, you know, go out there, go go jump in a Reddit for him and complain about it. Yeah, that's a great place to do it. But yeah, I don't I that's I think that's the real hang up, right? Yes. Randy's audio, my video editing just got worse.

Editing Audio Versus Editing Video

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah, Randy says if the file is uploaded correctly and then re-encoded with the same time codes, it can switch between the video and audio file. That's how HLS works. Okay. That's that would fix that problem. How does Spotify do it? Poorly. You upload you upload a video to Spotify, and I know this is shocking. The only way you can see that video is to go to Spotify. In the same way, Podpage can't import transcripts from Spotify. Why? Because the only place you can see a transcript in Spotify is Spotify, hence the walled garden. They want everything to be there. I've never heard of this. Randy says you can do this all with owncast and it will switch between the different file formats as long as the time cones match. And then this is the part, and this is, I think some of this we're just gonna have to wait till it comes out because Apple could change all of this. Because, you know, Ralph's like, that's not how I understand it. Should we be editing differently for audio and video? Edit for value. That's my bottom line. I don't care what format it is, edit for value. Now, like I just did a long pause because I'm trying to figure out what I'm trying to say. I would cut that out in audio. I that's the pro here's the question. So is okay, everything's straightened to the point, and I guess really let's focus on the intro. Maybe some people will change their audio intro or they'll change their video intro to be more audiocentric. I don't know, but if you do that, then you lose people, and that's where I make my content for people. The algorithm is what I say. Just I I, you know, now I know it can help me get found, but I'm like, I when I have people look at my website before I put a big old, you know, chink in the armor over there, but I had people look at the school of podcasting, like, man, you you rank really high for some of these words. And I'm like, yeah, and they're like, well, what are you using? And I go, I write content for people, by people. And they'd be like, Oh, you you're doing really good. And I'm like, Yeah. And then I had like six months where I told YouTube or Google, don't index my site. I don't recommend that. That does really nasty things to your SEO. Yeah. So am I gonna edit no. Now, maybe that's because I'm old.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

I'm gonna get off my lawn. I'm gonna do my audio the way we've been doing it since 1917. And I'm gonna do my video the way I've always been doing it, and screw Apple and all you guys, you know, eh. You know, that's me.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

I'm not changing. Now, I I also don't think that these changes, like if if the fact that you cut seven seconds out of your video makes your video go viral, okay. I'll I'll believe I look, I get it. There's I don't do even now when I do video, I used to have, and I I don't know, I think it's four seconds where the ladies would go, the school of podcasting with Dave Jackson. I don't do that anymore. But I I don't that there's that, hmm. I'm not sure that much editing is gonna make that much more growth. I could be wrong, because you know the kids, the kids like things right to the point, but I this might be something we're overthinking.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Do they I do they I we listen, we we give the z the the gen alphas, the gen zers, the zillennials, the millennials, we give them way too much credit, right? In some in some regard, along oh short attention spans. Yeah, that's that's why all this long form content's doing. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Like, come on, friends. I think you know, I think I think we may be overthinking this whole bit, right? A little bit in that, yeah, you know, sit down, figure it out, figure out what works for you. Your show is not well, like I'll say this and then I'll contradict myself. Like, I don't think your show is gonna be saved by your edits, just to be honest. However, when you think about the movie Star Wars, it was saved in the edits, like it was terrible the first verse. No, that's major, those are major editing, you know, you you're not doing that, you're not reconstructing, maybe you are, but you're not reconstructing your podcast every single week. By the way, if you're doing it, if you're editing it a way and it's not it's and if it's reaching people, keep doing it that way. Right? If it's not, do something different. You know, uh but I I don't I don't know if it's gonna be that much of a difference. Well say it's I don't yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

The other thing that hasn't come out, even though they're letting beta people in, and I'm waiting for this number, is again, they may have solved a problem that either A, nobody's trying to solve, or B, it's too expensive. Because I know doing it the old way where you were just serving one file, you know, it was you know, your your Lipson bill went from twenty bucks to in some cases a hundred and fifty or at least eighty. And we have podcasters that are like, mm, five dollars, I don't know. I'm not sure if that's gonna be worth it. And now you're like, go buy the so, and from if your CDN is billing you by the what's the word you have, you know, where you've gone from one file to 87, and if it has to make 87 calls to the server to serve that file, and this is where I have no idea how it's gonna be billed, and I wish someone would talk about it. Todd did. Todd Cochran came out and he was like, that means it's gonna be 110 bucks an episode, you know, and I was like, that's not gonna work. But everybody's like, we got to compete with YouTube, and I'm like, well, that's in my opinion, that's not so I'm waiting to hear what the price is because I think that that's gonna be the thing. When people come out and go, oh yeah, well, it's 20 bucks now to host your audio, it's a hundred to host your video. I think you're gonna see a lot of people go, oh, I was oh, never mind. I'm I'm just gonna do audio. We'll see. Yeah, Randy says this whole video push isn't going to change a thing. Audio still outperforms 15 to 1. Yep. There's just more places. People always ask me, Mike, well, let's just go with the obvious one. There are more opportunities to listen than to watch. When I drove to Cincinnati, as I was driving there, I didn't watch a single YouTube video because I was driving, but I listened to about 12 different episodes.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

So well, we all have a different use case, right? I mean, Ralph's point a little bit earlier, you know, Apple's trying to get content pushed to their TV devices or devices in general, right? Whatever we're using here. I I don't see those dominating the market at the moment. Like nobody's talking about that ecosystem. It's just not, it's just not you know, today what what people talk about is their streaming platforms, right? The Netflix, the Prime, the like that's got the that's got the share, that has the market share right now. I don't think anybody's from the most part. There's some of us who do this, but nobody's I don't think right now consuming podcasts the way they consume Netflix kind of content. This is why podcasting hasn't worked for the most part on Amazon or on Netflix or on those, right? The expectations are different of people that are going to those platforms. They're going to watch professionally made now. If your video, if you're listening if your podcast's this way, maybe this is the right place for it. But it they're they're looking for, they're not looking for or they're looking for professionally made entertainment, right, when they get there. And I think still most people are grabbing their podcast today. The the the most people, and I think we see this in the data, right, are grabbing their stuff still via the traditional channels, whether that's uh a traditional podcast player or they're subscribed on YouTube, whatever that means. Well it's not a podcast, but whatever that means.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Yeah, Ralph says I I respectfully disagree. I think this is going to change things when people can easily change back and forth. So I could see watching it, watching it on your television, and and now I'm gonna drive to grandma's house. I gotta go over the river.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

You can do it today, and nobody does it. Now, I shouldn't say nobody, because there's a few who want to switch back and forth. Oh, I want to continue that on. Like that's been available in some of the podcast app. I bet the usage on that is super small. Super yeah, and yes, can you? Yes, that would be great. Could could I have a situation where I before work I'm watching it on whatever device at home, and then I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go, I want to switch this over to the audio to put it in my car. Yeah, and the super nerds do that kind of stuff, but the average person is not doing that. So the to your point, this is a problem, they're solving a problem that some people are gonna are are gonna face. Is this mainstream? I don't think so. Not now. Maybe not now, maybe in the future, but I don't I don't see that being mainstream. I don't think the numbers support that. Yeah, so yeah, I just don't see that.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Ralph is like App Apple's gonna make money on this, so they're gonna push it.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Well, sure. Yeah, sure. They're by the way, they're a public company that they're their they're their job for their shareholders is to make money. Like, I don't know why we've why we vilify making money sometimes. It's okay when we make money, but when other people make money, that that's a little too that's a little too crazy there when other people make money. Listen, if you don't like the money they're making, stop buying their stuff. Right. Vote with your wallet.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah, exactly. I've heard, I think it was Dave Jones that said Apple's gonna charge a dollar per 1,000 views. But then again, they brought it up. Well, what if what I'm dynamically inserting, like you know, the question of the month or whatever, it's not an ad, it's just dynamic content. So now I'm gonna get dinged because I want to keep my schedule up to date. So I this is one of those I'm gonna sit and watch, and you know, so I'm gonna you know, you you could get first movers advantage, and if you want, if you got the budget, but it's worth a try.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

It's worth a try. I we gotta stay close to this, right? I think I love that we're having this discussion early because it gets people thinking, and listen, there's differing of of opinions here, which I think is great. Like yeah, channel, we we we are here not to be in the echo chamber of oh, we all think the same things. Oh, yeah, of course it's this is great. It's just you know, the the late Todd Cochran, this was what he was really good at was questioning the norm. Yeah. And so don't, you know, this is good to have this dialogue uh early on to kind of figure out like, okay, should we have it or shouldn't we? And it's great that we have differing views and opinions on it. At the end of the day, you run your podcast, so you do it the way you uh you're supposed to be. I'm comfortable where I'm at. I've looked ahead at this, it's like but I'll I'll let I'll let some water go under the bridge and then we'll see what we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Yeah, I'm gonna let everybody else jump in, pay the the the piper, and then see if it works, you know. I'm like, I'll let you do that. Maybe great.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

Like, you know, Ralph's like he said, I'm gonna jump in. Awesome. Great, you know, that's that's awesome. Get in there, figure it out. I mean, if it if it goes well for you, others will follow. Yeah. If it will we'll say, hey, thanks for testing it out. Thanks for trying. Oh it was like dynamic ad insertion, you know. That was that was the podcasting Jesus for a while, you know. Oh, dynamic ad insertion. That's that's gonna save podcasting. Uh did it? Yeah. Whatever. Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

I I'm somehow I was going to play because we have a new person. Ed Wilson is here for the first time. Welcome, man. And I was gonna play the world's here it is.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

The world's greatest chat.

Better Measurement And Advertiser Pressure

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah. And uh while we're at it, um David Lee Roth is really glad that you're here.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Woo!

SPEAKER_02 39:04

So there we go. Randy says they created a plot, a problem that didn't exist except for advertisers that want data and just isn't accessible to them because it doesn't exist through RSS. I listened to Podglomerate as a podcast, and they did a bunch of episodes about selling ads and this and that. And there, it's I to their credit, they're educating people, but for some of this to really put part of the reason that we are stuck on making sure that advertisers get their data is and I'm gonna I'm gonna paint with a big wide brush here. My guess is it's old white dudes in suits. That that's the way we've always because we're like, look, we don't we don't hold radio, we don't hold newspaper, we don't hold TV up to any of these standards. Why are people leery about jumping into podcasting when we've just proven again and again, and oh, here's another one, and again, that people trust podcasters, and yet why aren't they throwing money at that? And it's it's weird. So I think eventually, you know, if it wasn't right now with these guys with big budgets going, I'll I'll throw in another hundred K, but we just need these kind of stats. And I'm like, so we're you know, it's it's spooky that way. Chris says, find out what your audience loves, and that dictates what takes your process and time. Is anyone asking, does my podcast audience spend time watching video podcasts on their phone? I, you know, I have things that I watch. I definitely have my YouTube subscriptions, but I've never was like, you know, Ralph's listening.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

Go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

No, this this is also going to give us much better data because we will see better measurement using this HLS technology, and I think people are going to be shocked at their data. You ready? What's going to happen if if this really, you know, this is why my question of the month is where do you think podcasting is going? If you go over to school of podcasting.com slash question, because here's what, you know, 10 years from now, we're not going to use download data. We're going to use how far did you watch? And when you do that, listeners versus downloads, well, we're going to see a large percentage of people go, that's it. I just lost half my audience. Well, you you they really weren't there in the first place. But when that happens and they go by look, because who wants that? The advertisers. They're like, Yeah, we got it. Because look, I've got probably 15 shows in a marketing folder on my pocket cast. And every month I download at least one episode from these people. And I'm here to tell you I don't listen to a single one. And then when the next episode comes out, it replaces the one that's on my phone. So they're getting a download link, but I'm not listening to that. So eventually people are going to go, well, I'm not paying for ads on a show that Dave didn't listen to. Now that's a small percentage of the episodes that go into my podcast. I pretty much listen to everything, even if it's months old. John says, Look, let's take this show, John Dremango. I came here to ask questions, interact with Dave and Jim. I listen later to what I miss is audio podcast, not a YouTube video.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

All right. Well, but you're probably you're most of your listening is probably, you know, this works well in video format live because you bring up the chat questions, right? So it's interactive in that way. When you're going back after the fact, you don't have a chance to do that. So listening it via audio makes sense. Or that's just the most convenient time for you is to listen via audio. You know, so those listening patterns could be a little bit different based on what the the the time, the time sensitivity to it. Doesn't make much sense to watch the video after the fact, it's just us talking. You could. I'm some do, right? We we some do. The audio makes a lot more sense that way.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

I do put chapters in there, thanks to uh podcast chapters, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

You make you make chapter art for every single chapter, too.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Not not all of them, but definitely the sponsors, and when we get to the awesome supporters and things like that, and that's just because here's a novel idea. Dave thinks it's fun to watch the pictures change.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

They did the first time I listened to it, and in you know, I was listening because normally I'm here, so I don't go back. But one time I was, I think when Mark was on or Glenn or somebody. So I was going back to listen to the audio bit of it, and all of a sudden the picture changed on the you know, on my CarPlay, or was CarPlay, Apple CarPlay. And I was like, is Dave doing that for every single chapter? That's close. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, are you AI AI in that or are you?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

No, I have what I do is I have a folder on my computer called chapter images. And so, like, you know, home gadget geeks is in there, pod pages, all the stuff that we mentioned there. And then anytime, like if I mentioned captivate. There's probably a captivate 3,000 by 3,000 logo in there that I then put there along with, and this is why I'm really doing it, I put a link there because some apps will let you click that link. And if that's an affiliate link, you're darn straight that I'm going to put that affiliate link there because you know I've just made it this much easier to click on a link that might make me money. Ralph says, I think there's also a trust value seeing the person whom you are hearing. And when they see us, they go, Oh, never mind, forget it. Oh my God. Who are those guys? Let's see who who's what is this though? It's like the old guys at the Muppets. You know what I mean? What were the names?

SPEAKER_04 44:59

This is chat room. What's this is where you or in YouTube. You can put it down in the comments in YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

What were their names?

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Throw that out there.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

We'll give them 15 seconds. Um yeah. Ralph is jumping in with Captivate. Yeah. Will this be the death of Apple Podcasts? It's been the division in Apple that has continually lost money since it was created. It was never really intended to make money, and really how Apple Podcasts made money is through hardware. Like, well, how do I get that Apple Podcast? Oh, well, get an iPhone. Gotta have an iPhone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

If they don't make it, they needed content. Friends, they needed content for these phones. And uh originally they needed content for the touch. It was an iPod touch, right? That was the early, early version of the phones. Well, they weren't phones, they didn't have phones in them. But remember, we had, I think, three or four generations of iPod touches before the phones came. And everybody was like, this is great, you know. But I was like, hey, this is just an iPod touch that's got a phone embedded in it. However, they needed content for those devices. We weren't doing this yet, and there was this brand new thing called podcasting. And they're like, hey, let's make, let's make our own thing. Because they can't, they couldn't just do an RSS feed kind of thing. They're like, we got to do our own thing, let's do our own thing and do this. I think they lost their way a little bit in the in the later days of that, right? Everybody was on a I was on a was was using iTunes, everybody was was going this. Remember, it was iTunes before it was in.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

And so I think they lost their way a little bit. They created it, they put it out there, they kind of maintained it. Not really. It was very, very poorly done. And I think this is their second go-around of like, okay, we're we're we're missing, we're missing, you know, when Spotify started making money, started making banks, started getting exclusives, started doing some stuff. I think our friends at Apple went, well, we could do that too. Like we could make our own thing too. And I think there's a this is a jealousy play in some regards over at Apple for what Spotify is trying to do. They want to be the Spotify. They they I think they feel like they missed the boat. They kind of did. If they lock this all up, Spotify's locking all this up, if iTunes locks all, or if uh Apple uh locks all this stuff up, um, it's okay. We still have RSS, and RSS works, still works really well. We may have to go back through another cycle of of throwing the tea in the harbor, right? That's what RSS was. We threw the tea in the harbor, we're like, we can do our own thing, we can be independent, we can for the for those of the for those of you outside the United States, that was the that was our independence day, right? We threw tea in the harbor and said, screw you, Britain. And so the the I this the the good news is is if they do this, there's still avenues for us. They haven't locked up everything. There's still ways to do this outside of it, and it may be a chance for a breakaway, another breakaway, you know?

Indie Podcasting Survives Platform Shifts

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Well, I know Sam Sethy is is and I are on the same page. The more advertising goes down, the more people are gonna go, well, let's see, I could try to get 3,000 downloads and make four dollars. Or I'm I might just ask one person to give me four bucks a month on my Patreon. Like what's easier? Getting, you know, X amount of downloads or you know, Daniel J. Lewis uh from The Audacity to Podcast. If programmatic ads are paying around six dollars CPM, but Apple takes a dollar, that's quite a cut. Well, yeah. I mean, Apple's kind of used to 30%. It's always been a big cut. Yeah. Yeah. On top of that, how much it costs podcasters just for the video hosting. That's where I'm like, I'm dying to see the pricing. Because everybody's like, yeah, video. Woo! And then they're like, all right, it's$95 a month plus, you know, X amount per insertion. And people go, uh never mind, I'll just go over to YouTube. So we'll see. Yeah. Ralph says if Apple sets the standard with this video push, I think things are going to change. Yeah, I bet other apps go, wait a minute, we're gonna do that. Because apps don't make a lot of money. I guess the same argument can be made for audio versus video. Yeah. Yeah. And then advertising costs, that's the other thing about if there's now more places to advertise, is that gonna make the price of advertising go up or down? Yeah. Yeah. Unique listeners versus downloads. Yeah, I think I think if we're really going to bow down and kneel before the almighty advertiser, be careful about that because you're gonna they're gonna be like, well, we need to see, you know, how long till they go, we need public uh stats like YouTube. You know, even though technically the really good stats aren't public, you know, I can see how many subscribers you have and I can see how many views you got, but how long till we see how far people are watching? Although you can kind of see that with YouTube. You can see where the most viewed things are, which is actually something you should do for yourself because you can see how many people are skipping the intro. Ralph says, I think this is going to remove a ton of indie podcasters because of costs as well as real data is going to shock them. I hope I'm wrong, but the downloads are lying to them.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Nothing will stop indie podcasters when they figure out it still works other ways. Yeah. Right. There's still this isn't like the world is coming to an end, and the only way to podcast is through Apple, right? Still lots of ways to create, do, distribute. Friends, we have to remember the the amount of content being created on YouTube by itself compared to podcasts that are coming out is incredible. So like this isn't the first, uh like sometimes I feel like we're thinking like Apple's gonna take over. YouTube already dominates in this space. And so we we already have a giant player out there, you know. We already have a huge, we've already got a huge player in the space doing this. And so, you know, what it what it may do is get some folks who, you know, where YouTube is missed the game, is they don't really have an audio play for the most part. I mean, they kind of do, sort of, but no, right? And so this may push YouTube, this may push our Google friends, our meta, no, that's Facebook, our alphabet friends to to to get a little invasive, uh, invad invasive? No. Innovative, that's the word I'm looking for. On invasive is another word for another day. They may get more innovative in what they actually, and I Dave, I know don't don't kill me on this one, but what they consider to be a podcast, right? YouTube has its own ideas of what it thinks podcasting is too. Wasn't too long ago, we were talking a lot about this in YouTube and this whole their podcast concept and the way you're doing it, right? They came at it, of course, from a video perspective. And then they're just like, hey, we could group these things up into podcasts. And then there were some thoughts like, hey, we can deliver you an audio format. Of course, they want you watching the screen, but that being said, this isn't the first, this is the first run at this. We've had both both Google and Spotify make runs at this before. So a little bit of Apple just trying to jump back in the game. I think our indie podcasters, Ralph, are gonna be just fine. They're gonna be just fine. There's still lots of great ways for indie folks to get out there and and do it in a way that works for them. I don't do any of these. I don't I don't worry about any of these Spotify, Apple. The the way I'm doing it works just fine. And I and it and anybody could do it the way, still do it the way I'm doing it. Nothing's getting shut down, there's no servers getting turned off. They can still do it.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

And we have the the answer we've been looking for. The two old men on the Muppets was Statler and Waldorf.

SPEAKER_04 53:07

Yes. So who who uh are you Statler and I'm left thinking about the look, go back to look. You know, who's the there's a tall, skinny one, right? And then a shorter, not so skinny one in there.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yeah, one guy was yeah, and and yeah. The other thing I went over and ran and ran to Perplexity, and I said, hey, compare YouTube to Rumble. And it said YouTube is vastly larger than Rumble. Thanks. I'm so glad we have AI. I never would have figured that out. Based on recently public estimates, YouTube holds roughly 73 to 92% of video platform market, while Rumble is still under 1%. So have fun. And again, that doesn't mean, you know, look, Netflix started when Blockbuster had video wrapped up. They just came up with a better way, and you know, basically Blockbuster could have really owned Netflix and they just had a really stupid CEO. Yeah, Daniel said, I would so much rather get five dollars per episode from one person than five dollars from a sponsor. Yep, I would agree with that. So we'll see. Yeah, John says we want everything for free, but pay us top dollar. Uh absolutely. Yeah, and YouTube does have great stats. That's the one thing, and it'll be interesting to see.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Because it's a walled garden, right? They have great stats, the trade-off. Like, friends, this is always the trade-off. Like, why couldn't we have great stats in podcasting? Because it was fiercely independent. The RSS feed was fiercely independent, right? Nobody could and and you it allowed everybody, it was very, you know, it was very diverse. You could anybody could grab it and incorporate it, right? And yes, with podcasting 2.0, we tried to put some standards on RSS feeds to try and help with that, but it was fiercely independent. It was supposed to be that way. Yeah, right. That was the whole intent. The great stats come on Spotify and YouTube and Apple because they're fiercely walled gardens. And you, you know, you get what maybe you get what you pay for. If that's if you use that phrase.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Well, John has a great point. He says, true indie podcasters will always podcast no matter what. We do it for love of podcasting. We do it because we love to talk about Batman in the basement. You know. Yeah.

unknown 55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Ray says, things are changing, so I'm just gonna shut down my podcast. No, don't do that. No, don't do that.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

Don't do that. Keep keep going. We we need the you know, we need people to just keep we need it, you know, for the love of the game. Like, I I think this is one of those where, you know, do it because you enjoy being in the conversation. You know, this week I got a chance to to sit down with longtime podcast. He helped me start Home Gadget Geeks, you know, 15 years ago, Christian Johnson. Wow. And we talked for two hours. Now, an hour and a half of that made it under the podcast. Is that too long? Maybe. I don't care. It was an amazing conversation, right? I learned a ton for it. You know, so do it do it because you love to do it. Or if you get paid to do it, which I also do, which is super cool, do it because you there's an obligation and you get paid to do it, right? Some of those kinds of things. Or if you have advertisers or you've got Patreon folks and you've committed to them, you made a social contract with your listeners that you're gonna do these things, do it for those reasons. But keep it like don't get don't get discouraged on this kind of stuff. This is this stuff's minor blip. Like it'll it it'll we'll be just fine. We'll be just fine.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

And what's sad is I'm gonna mention something here and I don't have a link for it, but I do have a new t-shirt. Oh, nice. Oh, I'm in the way. Here we go. Not every conversation, not every conversation needs to be a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

That's a lot of that's a lot of ink on the or a lot of whatever that stuff is on the front of the shirt. Well, Mark sent this to me from sweaty underneath it.

Thank You Supporters

SPEAKER_02 57:11

No, it's actually it's not that bad. It'd be I think because there are spaces in the letters. If this was one giant thing, I've seen people do that where their album art is this, and then it just doesn't breathe at all. But yeah, by the way, Ray from aroundthelayout.com, he starts his because of my podcast story today. He's got 30 hours to Australia. And if you're not familiar with this story, he was talking, it's basically it's it's meetups for people that are into model trains. And this one guy was asking him for feedback, like, how do you run a successful one of these? And Ray's like, Oh, I've seen this, I've seen that. And the guy's like, Well, if we had one over here in Australia, like, would you come here if I paid for the ticket first class? And Ray's like, let me ask my wife, and and like, can I bring her? Yeah. So that's uh quite the because of my podcast story.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

So that's awesome.

Join the School of Podcasting

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SUPERCHAT FROM BANGS NAUGHTY BITS

Videos on Spotify Seem to be a Dud

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Yeah, that's awesome. But speaking of giving Dave five bucks, you can do that by going over to Asthepodcastcoach.com slash awesome, or you could be an awesome supporter like these lovey people, like castahead.net and home gadget geeks. I've heard of that guy, spy brie, good old Shane, resourceful designer. That is Mark's podcast, John Munz.com, the content creators accounted. You could be like these fun field people. Just go over to Asthepodcastcoach.com slash awesome. And this show is also brought to you by the school of podcasting.com, where you get courses, coaching and community, and a 30-day money back guarantee. And if you want to dip your toe in the water and get access to some of the courses and some of the community, you can do that now. There's a free version. When you go over to school of podcasting.com slash start, you'll see where it's gonna, you know, default to where you pay. But if you click on change, there is a free version. And we're still playing with things over there. So come and check it out. If you need some feedback on your show, because like why isn't my show growing? Well, maybe you need some honest feedback, go over to podcasthotseat.com. And I don't know why my my mouse always has issues on this. But speaking of podpage, we just rolled out on the elite plan where if you're with, I don't know, let me think of a well, I won't be mean. Let's say you're using Libson, which doesn't do transcripts. Well, if you put your feet into Podpage, we will now, if you're on the Elite plan, make a transcript for you with names and timestamps and all the fixed ins. Check it out, trypodpage.com. And if you need more Jim Collison and hey, who doesn't? Just go over to theaverage guy dot TV and check out Home Gadget Geeks. You just heard him talking about and all the great interviews that he does over there. And it's time for the wheel. Oh names. So who will it be? Will it be Craig from AI Goes to College, Greg from Indie Doppin, Jody from Audio Branding, the ladies over at Keep the Flame Alive, Castahead.net, Ralph over at just askral.com. You'll find all Ralph things. Who will it be? We're gonna spin the wheel as soon as I can find my mouse. And the winter, the winter? Yeah, the winter is. Could it be Ed or is it going to make it too? There we go. Max Trescott over at Aviation News Talk. If you are into flying, check it out because he does all the news about aviation. Max, thanks for being an awesome supporter. We deeply appreciate that. And, you know, you, the listener, the watcher, the viewer, you could basically become an awesome supporter because you might be sitting there thinking, you know, these guys save me time, they save me money, they save me headaches, they keep me educated. Just go over to Asthepodcastcoach.com/slash awesome and be an awesome supporter today. And we actually actually have the ability, if you just want to give us, oh, by the way, we didn't even say his name three times. Holy cow, but the one and only Bang's Naughty Bits gave us a five dollar super cash, you know, money explosion, blah, blah, blah thing. So yeah, that Randy says, hey, we we we didn't even say his name. Because usually you have to say Bangs Naughty Bits three times for him to show up in the chat room. But but Bangs, thanks so much for that. We do appreciate it. And we're talking about Spotify and videos. Mark over at Podcasting Morning Chat mentioned that he's got video on Spotify and has no views. And I did this a while ago, but this is I put like two months worth of content on Spotify of this exact show, and you can see where I have 15 plays for all time, and that's on you know a handful of videos. And I'm gonna say 13 of those are me. So now you could have a completely different reaction because your show's about sex or money and not podcasting, but you know, it's one of those things that at least from my chair, that I don't see, you know, when they're like, oh, everybody's watching video on Spotify, and I'm like, are they?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:31

Yeah, no one says, Yeah, did you catch that video on Spotify? Nobody. I've never, ever, ever had somebody come to me and said, Hey, do you want you to catch that, you know, whatever, fill it in. And like, yeah, oh, it's available over on Spotify. Nobody.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:44

Yeah. Yeah. If if somebody said, Have you seen the gorilla riding the unicycle? Yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to Spotify.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

Hold on, I'll give you the Spotify link. No, said by no one ever. They always say, I saw I let me get it on YouTube. Like we, you know, we use YouTube like a search engine. It's the number two. I don't know if that's true anymore, but you know, it we use YouTube like a search engine. Like you go to YouTube to solve problems, right? Nobody ever said, Yeah, I'm gonna go to Spotify and I'm gonna search Spotify for that. That's never been said.

Are Show Notes For People

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Yeah, here's a another not heated discussion, but a great question from the one and only John Jamingo from the Boomer Bunker. What is um here we go? I was told show notes are not for the listener, it's for Google search results. It's kind of both. I know in I think my last episode, I mentioned something and did not put a link to it and got a lovely letter from a listener that said, Hey, yeah who always says you will write a sternly worded letter if you don't put a link to the thing you talked about. I am writing you a sternly worded letter to let you know you forgot the link. So I think most of the time a listener, if it's a brand new person, they might look at this and say, Should I listen to this? And that opening paragraph and maybe some first of all, people aren't going to read the whole thing. That's just, you know, the same thing goes for blogs. But I think most of the time when people go to show notes, it's A, should I listen to this? And B, where's the link to that book you mentioned? That's about all. Now, I write insane show notes because whatever I put into captivate or buzz sprout for this show is gonna end up on pod page. And now I'm in the land of Google, and that's where I used to write baby show notes. So it's like, hey, here's a paragraph, here's what we talked about, here's some bullet points, and here's the links. And that's was it. And then I would wait for it to go into podpage, and I'd add a couple more paragraphs because I was in the land of Google and SEO. Now I just put the whole thing into Apple because A, again, I want the opening paragraph, a couple bullet points, and the links at the top. I don't want people to have to scroll to the bottom to get to the links. And I I think I heard somebody say Spotify searches descriptions, you know, so the show notes, where Apple does not. They just search the title, the episode, the title of the show, and the author field. And I'm like, well, if I can get some some SEO from Spotify, although I don't get near the listens in Spotify that I do in Apple, why not? Doesn't hurt anything. So, Jim, what say you when it comes to show notes?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:23

Yeah, I think it's for all three, right? You gotta write them for humans. We spend a lot of time talking about this at work. You gotta write them for humans, you gotta write them for SEO, and you gotta write them for the the you know for AEO, right? You gotta write them for the the new the new world of of artificial intelligence. So you you you you you know uh the you gotta write them for all three. You gotta put links in them, there's gotta be an FAQ in them, there needs to be some short content in them, there needs to be some long content in them. This is, I mean, this is an area where AI can help you out a lot. I I I think the days of manually writing your show notes, unless you really enjoy it, don't that they don't need to happen anymore. You know, we've been talking about open claw for a while, and this week really spent a lot of time working on open claw to create those show note templates for me. Yes, yes. I know there's services you can buy that have been doing this for years, right? You put your you give it your show, it transcribes them, does all that stuff. But I I kind of wanted to create my own, have some control over the content and what it looks like and some of those kinds of things. And this is this is an area, if you really struggle with it, AI can help out quite a bit of getting that content put together for you. I ask it to make sure it's readable from a human, that it also is SEO and AEO, um, you know, savvy, so to speak. Still review everything before it goes in. But Dave, in that combined process now, it's been kind of interesting is I can do one for now, I do one workflow and at the end it spits out HTML or whatever. I go through an API to my WordPress site. So it drops it on WordPress for me. Then it gives me another version of it for YouTube that's optimized. And in kind of two steps, I no longer have to log into those to do that anymore. I still do, because I I just started this and I'm gonna check them a hundred percent before I trust this process, right? But a couple just a couple commits and sends, it sends the data over there. I go over look at it. Okay, good. Hit save, or you know, or publish or make them, you know, make them public. And it's pretty helpful. So if you're you're in that space, show notes from that perspective, you gotta think of all three of those audiences, right? Humans, SEO, AEO, gotta do it for all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Yeah, Uncle Marsh says show notes with links, my listeners click, and Jeff C says, yeah, I make money on those clicks. So is people like, why are you putting the episodes and the artwork in the chapters? I'm like, it's a click. And if somebody clicks on that and buys, and it takes all of you know, if you're using pod chapters or even the build-in chapter tools in captivate and buzz sprout and blueberry has them as well. You know, Randy says, is Apple searching transcripts? Did I hear someone say that? You would think they would. I need to go into a transcript then and put something like, you know, purple nurple something, something, and and then search for it and see if it comes up. So yeah, it's here we go. Yes, Jeff says, great ideas. Jim's doing some type of that workflow. Do we need to get it?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:39

Oh, he's been waiting for this. It's time for Jim to get his nerd on.

AI Workflows For Notes And Publishing

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

Yeah, you can you can pay for this functionality. Claude Cowork is doing something like this, right? Well, listen, we're on the cusps of agents. Everybody's been talking about agents for the last couple years, and nobody's really got it right. I think this open claw concept or idea is gonna force the agents to work for like ChatGPT and Claude and some of those kinds of things. We're gonna start seeing agents get to be a lot more powerful in some of the things that they can do. But friends don't let friends do this without cautionary tales. So, friends, we're getting to a very we're getting to a very interesting time in our AI world where whether it's Claude code work or whatever, whatever it is, these automations that are happening, be super, super careful about what the information that you give them. Because as we know with these AIs, they can do some really, really interesting things on your behalf if you've given them the ability to. I've been spending a lot of time with with you know with the open claw this week. And in the very beginning, I locked that thing down pretty tight just to make sure it couldn't get anywhere. In fact, it needs like a double approval from me to do things like that. I'll be like, hey, could I give you an API for this? And it reminds me, yeah, sure, the API, but let's let's start with just read-only in the beginning. I won't do anything until you're convinced that it's doing what we want it to do. I think the tendency on some of these generative or these agent AI things that we're doing is we get so excited about what they can do, we forget with that information they may be able to do something else. As an example, you might give them access to your Google account to do some, to read your email or to you know go whatever that is. Well, you would do that through the Google API. And if you're gonna give them, you have the ability to lock that down to some features like read-only. Like don't don't let them create emails for you right away. Test it, make sure you're comfortable with it, do some training on it. A lot of these agents are like five-year-olds, right? They're just if you and if you just give them the keys to the car, they're gonna run that thing right off the cliff. So just be be careful. The other thing, Dave, I've noticed they're not as smart as you think they are. Like, I have really struggled to get them to solve some pretty easy problems for me at the local level. You know, open claw has an advantage because it sits on your computer. It's dangerous because it sits on your computer. Now, I've got mine locked down, can't do any like it can't install things without my password. It doesn't know my password, so it forces me to for me to put my password each time, which is great. That's exactly the way I want it to get done. But I just want to caution you, just be careful, Jeff. I know, I know you, and you're doing great on that. But just be careful what we do on these things, friends, because they you're giving them the keys to the car, right? And they can do they can they can do some things with this uh that that could be so just be cautious. And then don't believe all the hype, like there's some crazy hype on YouTube around this stuff, but yes, it can do some pretty amazing things, right? I've this week I've been like, man, that's freaking cool. Just this morning I had it set up a whole home assistant instance for me there that it's connected to so it can help me with some of those kinds of things. I'm like, man, that's freaking cool. But just be careful with it. It can be dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

John says Claude wrote a Python script to give me timestamps for my MP3 and YouTube videos. I said I won't use terminals, so it immediately wrote an HTML script and it works like a website. Blue is mine.

Agent Tools Can Wreck Your System

SPEAKER_04 1:12:31

So just be careful if you have it inspecting websites. Okay, you can like it. I prefer APIs because I can control the API key, and I can always I can always revoke the access from it if that's what I need to do. I prefer APIs first, if you can do that. By the way, here's something that's really cool. So you're like, Jim, what's an API, right? It's basically a it's data layer access to it, not going through the website, right? So it's going in and getting the data that you need directly from the site. Most of the time you have to set that up in an application, they'll give you an API key. That key can be revoked at any time, right? You can go in and revoke it. So, but if you it will say, hey, I don't if the site doesn't have an API key, it's like, hey, we could do some things in your browser so I could control your browser, and then I could go in and log in as you. Okay, that sounds cool. Until it's not. Like that's dangerous, friends. That kind of stuff, that kind of control, that kind of yes, yes, you can lock it down, but just be careful in knowing what you're giving it the ability to do when especially at the local level. You know, you're like, oh, I don't want to type in my administrator password all the time. I'll just give it it. That don't do not do that. Do not give it administrative rights to change things on your computer because it may go off. You may ask it to do something, and it may go off all on its own and decide it needs to do these kinds of things. So it's security matters. This is the dangerous part of these things, is they're very we're we're in early days of this, so just be friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Yeah, Daniel's working on APIs for pod gaugement and pod chapters. Uh what is an API? For me, it's it's a tool that lets the back end connect to another back end. Is that too generic?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:19

Well, so it's a service that's provided. So, like when you log in, say you you're going to YouTube.com, right? You log in and you put your username and password in, and it authenticates in you into you to the UI, right? That's where you upload videos and that's where you add content. What an API allows you to do is direct access to all that information without having to log into the site. And you'd be like, well, that's unsecure. Well, you have an API key that controls all it's like a password all on its own, where you've granted that access. You don't make the API. The API is exposed. Just think of it as a data layer, is exposed by the, you know, by the organization. Just this morning I went into Spreaker. I wanted to see if OpenClaw could automatically post to Spreaker for me. Spreaker has a public-facing API and a lot of the document they post the documentation how to get to it from there. What was great about OpenClaw is I didn't have to, I didn't have to do the API work. I copy and pasted, thank you, Randy. I I copy and pasted the instructions from Spreaker into OpenClaw and said, here's the instructions. And it was like, cool, I can set all this up for you. That's what I want, right? Because I'm controlling that process. And then I control the API key. So at one point it was like, okay, I'll authenticate with the API key. It gets access to that data. Now it can see my account in Spreaker, much safer way to do it, and it can make updates for me back and forth. It can check the data and it can also post the data. I could put it in a read-only format, like so I could expose it to an API, API, and say, you only have read-only access, you can't do anything else. Again, it's a five-year-old, right? I don't want you banging on the keyboard changing things. It won't. But you got to trust it like a five-year-old. And and so you might just give it read-only to begin with until you get comfortable with it. And this morning I posted, including the, you know, OpenClaw was like, well, where's where's the audio for this? And I'm like, remember this morning when we posted it had a it had the you know the the uh the link to the audio, and it was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I know where that's at. Okay, I'll download the audio and then I'll push it up to Spreaker through the API. That's pretty cool. Yeah. That is right, that stuff's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Jeff says that's a great point. Some websites are inserting malicious code to hack your agents. Locking everything down is a must. It's great advice. And then he said he's using Claude to access the kit API to go read all emails, analyze them, and then make a sound like Jeff document that I can share with any AI models that he's using. So making it sound like him. So just be careful.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:05

There's that urban legend of somebody who's done this already, and they, I mean, it's only weeks old, but this that they allowed him to read their emails and then respond to some of them that you know, and the the open claw created a was reading their emails about how dissatisfied he was at work, and so it resigned for him. It's probably not a true story, but that something like that could be possible. So you have to be very gotta just gotta be careful about what you give these things access to.

Get Your Nerd On: Isolation Strategies For OpenClaw Testing

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

Yeah. Randy says, have you heard Adam Curry talk about a tool he vibe coded that summarizes news stories? The thing that I was like, I think I almost jumped in was Adam needed to find a clip that said, What's Dave Building? And he thought he had one, but he he lost it. So he went to his whatever and said, Find a clip that says what's Dave Building. And like three minutes later, he's like, Oh, it found a clip for me, and he it it made the clip, it did everything. And I was like, Oh, wow, holy that that I was like, that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:10

So listen, if you're gonna use OpenClaw, okay, you've heard me, we've just talked about this for the last 10 minutes. It don't install it. Don't hopefully you're not at OpenClaw right now, and they have a little bash, they have a little script you can put in in your don't do it on your local computer. This needs to be an isolated box, right? It needs to be a PC or a Mac that's it can be on your network, but it needs to be kind of secure from everything else on your network. Do not install this locally. Don't stop. If you're doing it, stop it. Don't do it right now. You need to have it isolated. Exactly. So make sure you're make sure you're you're getting it on something. It's not designed necessarily to be local. Maybe in the future, you know, we're on early versions of this, but for today, you need to treat it like it's you need to treat it like it's malware. That's what that's what I would say that you're you don't know that the real uh Christian this week we were talking about it. He says the real problem isn't the software itself, it's all the plugins that have been made for this already, where people are like, oh yeah, I figured this out, and here's the plugin. You have no idea what's in that plugin. None. Right. Right? So you know, yeah, Jeff says that's why Mac minis are back ordered. Yeah, this created a Mac Mini frenzy. Apple had to think, what is going on? Yeah, like they're the Mac mini you know uh ecosystem sold out. Folks started buying M5 MacBooks just because there were no minis available. So they were like, well, my MacBook and put it on there. It's a little more expensive to do it that way. Yeah, you gotta have an old laptop laying around that's you know maybe 10 years old or less. Doesn't take a ton to run on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

You need some I still have my old PC sitting here unplugged, just gathering dust. I might do that. Jeff's or Jeff, John says, I have a feeling playing around with this stuff. I see a trip to the Apple Genius bar in my future.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:07

And John, your comment was got me what got me thinking, be careful what you're installing this on, right? Don't do this on your production box. Uncle Marv has some good comments. He says, Yeah, you could do virtual, you could do this in a virtual machine if you can do that. Put it in a Docker. Yeah, it's another way to do it. Separate box on that network, or you can use a VPS, right? If you have you can purchase some compute somewhere else. Yeah, that's this that's way more advanced than probably most of you would, but you could buy compute space somewhere else and put it on. I think they call that a BPS, and you could do it that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:40

Yeah, and then uh why a Mac mini? Because their their chips are super powerful.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

Yeah, the M4 is awesome. Yeah, yeah. And unified memory, if you want to get nerdy, and we're still in the nerd segment, unified memory, right? So that means the chip and the the RAM and the solid state uh storage all are on the same bus, so to speak. And so they're unified, so it goes super, super fast. It's also very efficient. So, you know, I run my gaming rig for some of this, that runs at 100 watts. I run the Mac Mini on this, it runs at 10 watts or 15, whatever, right? So they're much more efficient at this.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:20

John says, Hey, I've got a Mac Mini from 2012. Yeah. 2012? That's 14 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:27

No, it could, if it's still running and you've got, you know, you got access to the command line, it won't be great, John, right? You wouldn't load any local LLMs on it, you know, you wouldn't put any any local stuff on it. You're gonna need to have access to a service to do it for your AI. It's not remember, it's not AI, right? It's yeah, it's a service that takes advantage of AI. So, yeah, you could try it, John. Just isolate it off. Make sure it can't see anything on the network. I'd give it a try.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:56

There you go. And now Oh, he's been waiting for this. It's time for Jim to get his nerd on.

Power Rant:Reddit Webby Vote Question And Wrap

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

We also have this.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:11

It's time for a power reddit.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:14

I saw this and was like, oh, are you kidding me? So this guy's like, hey, my podcast series was nominated for two Webby Awards. And it seems like I should be using Reddit and other platforms to create awareness and try to win the people's voice component of the award. Curious if anyone knows how to do this without violating any subreddit rules, meaning you know it's against the rules already. You're just trying to hint, genuinely just believe in the story we are telling and want to bring attention to it. Of course you do. It's your show. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks. To which I go, here's a novel idea. You have a group of people that listen to your show every time it comes out. It's called your audience. Maybe ask them to go vote for your show. When I saw that, I was like, everybody's like, I gotta go to where the biggest people are. No, so let's say Reddit let you say, Hey, I've got, you know, two chances to win a Webby Award, why don't you go vote? Well, I don't know. If there's a hundred people in the Reddit, maybe, maybe two of them will go over and do something because they're bored. I said, but your audience who in theory have a connection with you and want you to win would be much more likely to go vote. I was just like, everybody's always looking, yeah, but if I could, if I could say it in Reddit, well, A, you know, then that would ruin the whole Reddit if everybody was like, hey, here's my new episode. In fact, the podcasting Reddit every Monday has a come spam this post with your latest episode post. And they do it once a week if you want to do it. And what's funny is not, I mean, people use that, but not as many people as you would think. But I just I'm always like, I don't know, how about your audience? You know what I mean? It's like, where where can I get ideas for shows? I don't know. What about your audience? I need to get feedback from my show. I don't know. What about your audience? Like, you've got people. Why not, you know, do that?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:09

So doesn't Bangs moderate that that podcast?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:13

He does, and that's and that's why that's really good. Yeah, because that guy didn't really break the rules. He was trying to see as close as he could, you know, how how close can I get? And then he did, somebody said, Hey, you know, this would have been much helpful if you'd put your URL in your Reddit profile, which is uh again kind of a rookie mistake. So he did, and then you can see where people are like, Hey, I just checked out your show, it's really good. And I was like, Okay, so he didn't really self-promote. He was asking, how do I do this without self-promoting, which in and a way is mild self-promotion? So yeah, Randy says, Don't say his name, he'll come back. Said it twice. Banks, banks, banks. Jim, anything coming up on uh home gadget geeks?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:58

Yeah, I shamelessly already promoted it through most of the show. So we spent some time. Christian Johnson is there. We spend about an hour and a half on open claw. Ed had asked in the chat room, how can I know more about it? Ed, before you try to do anything like this, you might want to check out our most recent episode of Home Gadget Geeks. Christian comes at it from a cybersecurity perspective. So some it's not a how-to on how to do it, but it is all the things you'd be careful about on it. It's available right now, theaverageguy.tv or homegadgetge.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:28

Yes, there it is. And uh, if you want to um learn about affiliate marketing, I'd somebody ask me this question, they're like, Well, how like understand what it is, you get a link, but like what do you do like this? So I was like, Well, I have my own little thing that I do to make it easy, and like today we talked about links that make you money, and I'm like, if somebody said right now captivate, all I gotta do is type in hashtag captivate, and there's my affiliate link. So it's one of those things. In fact, I will do that right now in the chat room just to prove it. Yes, you can trust everything we say. So I would go hashtag captivate and press enter. Yeah. Uh so uh anyway, so that's what's coming up on the school of podcasting. And uh want to say thanks to, of course, the world's greatest chat room, and uh Dan over based on a truesttorypodcast.com and mark over podcastbranding.co. I'm looking forward to see what he comes up with for the um how to pitch a podcast show that we'll be launching very, very soon. Have episode one in the can, and uh, we will see you next week with another episode of Ask the Podcast Coach. Thanks. Music for the sake of nothing. 60s organ. Are you doing the running man?