The Truth About Podcast Ads: Creativity, CPMs, and Audience Impact

Dave Jackson [00:00:00]:
Ask the Podcast Coach for February 21st, 2026. Let's get ready to podcast. Dan's getting some extra love this morning. It's Saturday morning. That music means it's time for Ask the Podcast Coach where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from theschoolofpodcasting.com and joining me right over there, the one and only Jim Collison from, uh, Home Gadget Geeks and, uh, theaverageguy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison [00:00:31]:
Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. I know we're coming in hot. We start— we had started a little late behind the scenes. And so as things get started here, welcome. It's always great to be here on a Saturday morning.

Dave Jackson [00:00:43]:
Yeah, everything was like, uh, for example, I went to log into Ecamm and it was like, hey, you need to reconnect your LinkedIn profile. And just everything took like an extra, you know, 2 minutes this morning. And I was like, oh, Jim's like, hey, I, I can't get in. So we are here and, uh, I'm back from Nashville. I believe I picked up a cold on the way home.

Jim Collison [00:01:04]:
So that's, that's— you always do when you travel, right? You always do when you travel.

Dave Jackson [00:01:07]:
Well, I noticed when I was doing my talk on Thursday, I was wearing a lav and the lav guy said, hey, if you're going to use a lav, you just got to talk loud. I go, not a problem. And about halfway through, I'm like, either I'm getting sick or I'm talking so loud I'm giving myself a, you know, some sort of sore throat or whatever. But I noticed it's kind of stuffed up a little bit. I'm like, oh, okay, wonderful. Which happens a lot when you, uh you know, you go on the road or whatever. But the, the one thing that can— maybe you can try to clear your sinuses, or at least warm up your throat, is of course a good old coffee pour. And that coffee pour is brought to you by our good friend Mark over at podcastbranding.co.

Dave Jackson [00:01:49]:
If you need a website, if you need a PDF, if you need business cards, if you need anything that is public-facing, well then you want to go over and check out Mark at podcastbranding.co. He's done a lot of my artwork over the years. And he's done websites for— like, if you go to congressionaldish.com, that's my buddy Jen Briney, and that's a site that's, uh, Mark's got his fingerprints all over because he made that for us. So the beautiful thing about Mark is he's got 30 years in design, he's been podcasting since 2013, and I, I know his, uh, you know, if you go to his site, it says he's done over 250 podcasts. That's an old stat. He's probably done over 500 at this point. And the beautiful thing is He's the marketing genius. You're the podcast person.

Dave Jackson [00:02:35]:
Let him know what vibe you're going for. Let him know who your audience is, and he's going to come up with some branding that's just going to fit your show like a glove. So check him out, podcastbranding.co. Take me home.

Jim Collison [00:02:57]:
And of course, big thanks to our good friend Dan Lefebvre over there, Based on a True Story— Based on a True Story podcast.com. Again, this week Oppenheimer. So if you haven't seen that, Project Oppenheimer, or just actually project— it was the Manhattan Project in Oppenheimer. Check it out, it's available now. You can check it out based on a true story, basedonatruestorypodcast.com. And Dan, as always, thanks for your sponsorship. Oppenheimer, oh, that's an interesting— that's an— to me, that's always been an interesting name. I've just been in— that'd be the— like, sounds like a cool-ass name to have.

Dave Jackson [00:03:29]:
You know, Oppenheimer. Yes, James Oppenheimer. Indeed, a few more syllables in Bond. Oh man. But yeah, I was at, uh, the NRB, the National Religious Broadcasters, and I think I'm going to take my presentation and make it Monday's School of Podcasting because I have an interview in the can, and if I rush that, I'm going to be really mad at myself. And I've worked on this presentation on should your show be on YouTube? And I had a few more stats for that, but it was the thing that I liked about it that also made me very uncomfortable is the first night they had a kind of a networking thing. And I can go to, you know, Podfest or Podcast Movement and go, so what brings you to the show? And somebody will say, oh, well, I'm a podcaster, or I'm gonna start a podcast. And so I can kind of have a conversation with these people.

Dave Jackson [00:04:24]:
And I kept saying, so what brings you to the show? They'd be like, oh, well, I'm a documentary maker and I'm doing a show about, uh, female circumcision in Africa. And I'm like, okay, I got nothing. Like, you know, you just listen. And, and it was weird because it really put me back in my shell. And so the second night, I found myself not talking to anybody. And I'm like, no, you idiot, you know, you're here, find somebody to talk to if nothing else. And so I liked it from that angle, that it was a good practice, and I had to literally grab myself and go, get over here, and talk to some people because it wasn't quite as, uh, not that it wasn't fun, it just was like, oh, we should talk some more. It was just like, oh, good luck with everything you're, you're doing.

Jim Collison [00:05:08]:
So not quite as podcasty, right? I mean, no, these are broadcasters, these are creatives, these are— yeah. Did you, did you have a booth or were you just there?

Dave Jackson [00:05:18]:
Just there, just there to talk. It was, uh, yeah, kind of a school of podcasting thing. So yeah, and Daniel was there and, uh, Rob from Focus on the Family was there. So Daniel was on a panel, uh, and that kind of— and Adam Curry was there on Wednesday. So that kind of let me see, okay, there are podcasters here. And it was very cool that, uh, Adam actually pointed out that Daniel and I were sitting next to each other and he's like, oh, if you have more podcasting questions, like, those two guys right there can, can handle it. So that doesn't suck when somebody from the stage goes, go talk to these guys, uh, And so we got a number of people that kind of like, oh, I have podcasting questions. And then at the end of my talk, there were some people that wanted to ask questions and things like that.

Dave Jackson [00:06:05]:
So that kind of went— I was like, oh, there are podcasting people here. But a lot of— it was interesting looking at people's booths, like their marketing. Like the one was interesting. They had where everybody else had a, you know, whatever it is, 10 feet wide, you know, thing in the back. This person had one that was about 4 feet wide. Vertical, kind of like if you take your phone instead of being horizontal, their display stuff was vertical and it just said Feather and there was a big white feather picture on it. And I was— and I stopped and I was like, okay, it worked. I go, I have no idea what your company is about.

Dave Jackson [00:06:42]:
I go, so I said, if that is the goal of your banner behind you, it worked. I'm die— I said, I got a brain gap here. What the heck is Feather? And it was something to do with marketing or something like that. And as I'm standing there, another person stopped by and said, hey, I gotta let you know, your marketing's horrible because I have no idea what your business is. And I said, and yet here you are at their booth. And I looked at the person and she kind of giggled and she's like, yeah, that's— I don't know if it was planned that way, but, um, that was interesting. I had one guy that was selling jewelry and had kind of that— have you ever seen— for those of us who remember the mall, you know, there was always that mall kiosk guy that would kind of trip you as you're going by and tackle you to see if you wanted some sort of, you know, deodorant or perfume or whatever. And this guy literally, he shook my hand, he's like, my name is Dave too.

Dave Jackson [00:07:36]:
He's like, let me show you this one thing. And I look over and it's nothing but jewelry. And I'm like, I am not a jewelry person. I go, I would love to, Dave, but I gotta meet somebody over here and I don't want any of the stuff you have. And he like, would not let go of my arm. And I'm like, I just felt like going, is that a tactic? You just grab people and like make them listen to your pitch. So that was, uh, kind of interesting. But, uh, the, uh, let's see, uh, Jeff says, did you feel like a lot of radio broadcasters were in a panic with the rise of podcasts, YouTube, AI, etc.? Yeah, they— there is some of that.

Dave Jackson [00:08:11]:
Most of the ones there, because there, there was interesting— the, the— I would love to know what the age breakdown was because there were a lot of people that, like, look, I am not a young chicken, but I'm gonna say 80-plus. Like, they were, you know, where they're— they've dyed their hair red, and you, you can— like, if I dyed my hair now, look ridiculous. Um, so there were, you know, lovely— and I say this with love and compassion— there were older people there, and then there were people like my age, like middle age, and there weren't many youngins there. And if they were, they were female in sundresses and boots. Um, but I think most people there have kind of figured out, uh, you know, we need to get on board. And I— but yet I did see there were vendors there for amplifying your signal, like your actual AM radio signal. And I was like, really? I'm like, you're gonna invest in a stronger signal? And I'm like, all right, you know. So that was, that was kind of different.

Dave Jackson [00:09:12]:
Um, yeah, so a wide range. There were some people there that were definitely— and I say this with love and compassion— 'merica. Like, there some— I have a, I have a thing, it's God's— God, it was the 4 G's: God, guns, gas, and glory. And I asked him, and I go, I get the God and guns, okay, whatever, glory, okay. I go, what's the gas thing? And they're like, they're trying to tell us to use cleaner energy and, you know, windmills instead. I was like, wow. And everything was like, they're telling us. It was a lot— there was a— that's the thing that, that kind of turned me off, was there a little bit of like Like, I love communities, but like, at, at Podcast Movement, we're like, that's it, we gotta get the— I don't know why they have Southern accents, but you know, we gotta get the video people and we gotta, you know, it's like there's a little bit of us and them going on that I kind of after a while was like, all right, all right, easy, easy, let's, let's chill out.

Dave Jackson [00:10:05]:
But it was, it was the thing

Jim Collison [00:10:07]:
that was funny, people, you said 5,000, 5,000 people.

Dave Jackson [00:10:10]:
I saw, I saw an email today that said they had 5,600 people, and it's at the Gaylord Hotel in Nashville. And, uh, Daniel and I split a room, and I thought, wow, I had 14,000 steps, and Daniel had way more than that because he was going around promoting, uh, Podgagement and Podchapters and the other things, where I was, uh, you know, finding a place to sit down and do Podpage, uh, because I still had to do my job. So it was, uh, I mean, it was a good time. The, the, um there are things when you do see a community come together that were really cool. Like when you had, like, their, their, uh, what do you call them, your, your keynote speakers and such. They had these big events, and at one they had an actual army band there, you know, with the tubas and the drums and the whole nine yards. And they had the whole, you know, as they're bringing in the flags. It was very— because Pete Hegseth was there, the Secretary of Defense, or, or as he now says, the Secretary of War.

Dave Jackson [00:11:14]:
Yeah, which he had, I think, the best line of the night because America, America is celebrating 250 years and, uh, as a country. And he said, everybody loves to celebrate 1776. He goes, I'm from the Department of War, we celebrate 1775. It's like, so, um, yeah, it's, uh, exactly. Chris says, welcome to the Gaylord Hotel, where— here's your map, sponsored by Randy McNally. It's— it was— yeah. Crazy, man. And it's one of those where, you know, 14,000 steps a day, and that's me sitting down most of the day.

Dave Jackson [00:11:50]:
It was crazy. This is the one that has the boat. And now I only saw the boat once that goes through the lobby, like kind of right outside the lobby, and you kind of taking it, does a little U-turn. It used to go kind of a circle through the whole thing, but they, they kind of cut that part out and put in some restaurants because they were, uh But I love the fact that, um, behind it is a— the Grand Ole Opry, and then if you'd walk a little further, a mall. So the one night, uh, Rob Walsh was there because he lives in Nashville now with Captivate, of course, he and Elsie. And, uh, so Rob, myself, and Daniel walked over to the mall and went to the food court because we didn't feel like paying, you know, $26 for a hamburger. Um, yeah, and we thought, how can we get— we're not walking around enough, how can we But, but it was a good time. And, uh, you know, so, uh, if you have any questions, of course you can always go to askthepodcastcoach.com/question.

Dave Jackson [00:12:48]:
He said firing up the Zoom thingy, uh, so we can have that going if you want to join in. And, uh, well, yeah, I— well, that's interesting. Can you still hear me, Jim? Because you're locked up. Maybe I'm locked

Jim Collison [00:13:07]:
up.

Dave Jackson [00:13:08]:
Mm-hmm. And he's back.

Jim Collison [00:13:09]:
Okay. I'm back.

Dave Jackson [00:13:10]:
Sorry. Was I back? Was I locked up? Yeah, try that again.

Jim Collison [00:13:12]:
You were locked up to me. Yeah, you were locked up to me.

Dave Jackson [00:13:15]:
Well, that was fun.

Jim Collison [00:13:17]:
Uh, terrestrial radio. Uh, you know, I know we bash it a lot here, and especially podcasters sometimes want to feel good about themselves, and so they're like, ah, radio. Um, friends, it's still a big deal.

Dave Jackson [00:13:30]:
Like, oh, huge.

Jim Collison [00:13:31]:
It's gonna be around a while, and, and, um, it's gonna— you know, is it, is it the thing anymore? Probably not, right? But it is a thing. So I mean, as much as we love to talk about it that way, certainly getting 5,000 people— now the demographics getting a little aged, but there'll probably be some younger folks who come in behind this. I don't know, not what's, what's going on with our signal here. Speaking— this doesn't happen in radio.

Dave Jackson [00:14:03]:
Yeah, it was— I started Zoom, that's the— what caused all that. I started the Zoom meeting so if people wanted to join, that's at askthepodcastcoach.com/question. And for some reason that threw Ecamm into a fit. So, but yeah, radio still— I mean, it's in the car, forget about it, uh, radio, because it's easy. You hit a button, you press another button, and you're going, you know. And yes, but even, uh, in my car, I have to fire it up, I have to go into my Bluetooth. It drives me nuts that it doesn't automatically connect to my Bluetooth receiver, which I have to turn on. So there's like 4 steps to listen to something in the car, uh, which we did on the way home.

Dave Jackson [00:14:44]:
Um, that was the thing, I, I mentioned this in my presentation. I said, on the way driving from Akron, Ohio down to to Nashville, I go, I listened to probably 12 episodes. I go, I didn't watch a single one because, you know, my eyes were kind of busy doing that. So, um, while radio's still king and podcasts are great, but, you know, the whole video thing, I'm like, I didn't watch any video while I was there. I was listening to a bunch of stuff. So, um, but yeah, radio is big. It is funny when you go to the AM dial Anytime I hear it, it's primarily, you know, some sort of religious broadcasting, or it is, um, like 1940s music because, you know, that age group that, you know, I was a teenager when Glenn Miller was around, or whoever. And I don't know if I'm locked up or if Jim— and Jim is gone.

Dave Jackson [00:15:42]:
And now he's back. All right, well, that's good. You were, you were in deep thought looking at something for a long— you're like

Jim Collison [00:15:51]:
this. You didn't see my bald spot?

Dave Jackson [00:15:52]:
No, hopefully not.

Jim Collison [00:15:53]:
No.

Dave Jackson [00:15:53]:
Okay,

Jim Collison [00:15:55]:
good. I have plenty of bandwidth. I don't know what's going on, but

Dave Jackson [00:15:58]:
I was explaining how the AM radio is filled with religious programming and music from the '40s, at least for me.

Jim Collison [00:16:05]:
Yeah, yeah, you know, we get— I mean, there's a lot of news, there's a lot of talk radio that, that goes on in the AM, on the AM side. Well, and, you know, certainly FM is still a thing, right? I mean, we, yeah, we sometimes, we sometimes go to the maybe the worst application of radio, which is AM, right? I mean, yeah, quality's not great, reaches farther for sure. Um, but, you know, the FM is still like— if it wasn't making money, they would not be on the air. So it's still making money, right? It's all consolidated, right, in the United States. I don't know, there's just a dozen radio operators anymore. That may, maybe even that number, maybe even less with iHeart. You know, iHeart came in and consolidated a lot of the radio stations here in the United States. So, um, yeah, they still work.

Jim Collison [00:16:49]:
So people are still listening to them, there's still ads on them. Are they great? No. But are the ads on podcasts any better?

Dave Jackson [00:16:55]:
Well, that's a great question.

Jim Collison [00:16:58]:
Let's, let's not— you know, let's, let's pull the log out of our own eye first before we start. Like, and there's your reference, there's your NRB reference for you, right? So, you know, it is, um, we could do— I, I'm not seeing creative. By the way, podcasters are doing ads exactly like radio. Exactly. We're not— nobody's doing anything creative. They're just like, you know, it's mattress ads and it's, it's ads for socks and it's ads for green things to drink. Yeah, and you're like, like, friends, like, if we're so creative, why have we not found a more creative way to do ads?

Dave Jackson [00:17:44]:
I love when Tom— what? Yeah, Tom Webster talks about that, how people skip ads. He goes, well, here's a novel idea: make your ads better, you know. And people talk about Bill Burr and his ads because a lot of times he's— he'll even make fun of the product or whatever. It's not your typical thing. But it keeps people listening. And I heard— I was talking with one of the reps from, uh, Libsyn Ads, and they were saying that they use a tool that you can see, you know, how many people are advertising and where and what their ad load is. And they're seeing ad loads now of like 34%. I'm like, that's ridiculous because radio is 30%.

Dave Jackson [00:18:26]:
And the fact that we're going— and that's why podcasting took off is because it wasn't chock full of ads. Now there are different reports that have come out. I heard James Cridland talk about, uh, that somebody said, no, no, no, it's not that much, it's only 8%. And I, I'm gonna start kind of looking at maybe if I have, you know, in my free time, uh, I want to take like a top 20 show and then just start a timer every time they go to an ad. Because I know when I did that with the Hallmark Channel, it was ridiculous. And so it, to me, uh, it drives me crazy that we are outperforming every other media. We're— we have more trust than TV and, and newspapers and magazines, and yet we are trying— we're charging the same amount as, you know, if not less than radio. And I'm like, no, no, less ads and charge more for them, but It's easier to say.

Dave Jackson [00:19:25]:
So, um, yeah, Stephanie says, what does that translate per hour? Yeah, it's— it depends. But I know, like, um, Dan Granger over at— mm-hmm, yep, it'll come to me. It's an advertising agency. He's advocating for 10%. He's like, let's not go above 10%, you know. So if it's a— if it's an hour-long show, you know, you have, uh, a minute, you know, here, a minute there, a minute, you know, every— every 15 minutes Maybe you have 2 ads, you know, that would be about 10% depending on how you do it and how long they are, of course, things like that. But that's the— they, they've done studies where if you had, you know, 2 2-minute ads versus 4 1-minute ads, the 4 1-minute ads is worse because your, your audience just starts thinking, are they ever coming back? Like anytime Friends is on Nickelodeon at night, when they go to an ad break, it's like, are they ever coming back? Like, nope, we gotta learn about this new pharmaceutical, you know. And you'll notice if you watch the TV show Friends on Nickelodeon, they— there are all sorts of things.

Dave Jackson [00:20:37]:
Oh, when they're showing the ending credits, they put them in a little corner as they start to run the beginning of the next episode. Like they're overlapping them. Why? So they can cram more ads in. And I'm like, uh, it's so— I don't know. I think— I, I don't know if it's I think or I just hope. I, I would rather pay somebody $3 a month than get crammed a bunch of ads that don't apply to me. That's the other thing.

Jim Collison [00:21:06]:
So people just won't pay for that kind of— you know, we're stuck. We complain about the ads But then if you, you know, if content creators have to make a living, if they're going to do this and the good ones do, right? And then, you know, I have to— I listen to Windows Weekly, which is on the TWiT network. And, you know, Leo's plan started at $7, $7, $7 whole dollars a month, right? Now they're $10, $10 whole dollar. That's a hamburger at McDonald's at this point, right? Yeah. So, you know, but his, his stats, I forget what he said, but it's a very low percentage of the number of folks who, who listen who actually subscribe, uh, to it. And it's just, you know, you're kind of like, nobody wants to pay for it either. And so we— listen, we always just— we reap what we sow. It is as both content creators and as listeners, um, you know.

Jim Collison [00:22:01]:
And listen, um, maybe I'm, I'm a hypocrite at this point because I don't, I don't subscribe to the TWiT Network, and I probably should. That's a show I listen to every single week. It has some value to me. Um, I block ads on YouTube, right, when I'm watching. Now my blog— I use Brave, the Brave browser, and it automatically blocks it. Although there's always a battle between Brave and YouTube. They're always trying to sneak it in somehow, and then Brave has to block it 2 weeks later, right, kind of deal. But, uh, I'm, I, I might— listen, I'm saying this, but I might be the problem that it's, it's folks like me who, who aren't doing those things that, that are the reason we have to do these terrible ads.

Dave Jackson [00:22:42]:
Yeah, when I did my research for my book, um, it was about 3% of the audience would take action. When I talked to the people at Teachable, it was 2%, uh, and they do courses. And when I talked to the guy at NPR Plus— and this is the one that blew me away, it's NPR, you know, NPR Plus, surely people love NPR and they're going to support them— 1%. Now granted, it's 1% of a really big audience, but it's still— it was 1%. I remember when I was listening to Radiolab, and Radiolab is one of those shows that is so popular that if you say the phrase Radiolab and there's like a Radiolab, you know, listener in the room, they will go, oh man, I love that show! Like, it doesn't matter where they're at. And they were trying to get— they were trying to get up to 1%, and I was like, oh, that's

Jim Collison [00:23:33]:
crazy.

Dave Jackson [00:23:33]:
Um, uh, You Choose Podcast says, do more ads equal less downloads? They do in my case. If more ads, uh, reduce their audience, would podcasters keep at— wait a minute. If more ads reduce their audience, would podcasters keep adding more ads? Well, sometimes you gotta eat. I know 3 podcasters that are— their main income is from podcast ads. And so when you got little ones to eat, that's why they all added more episodes, and that's why in some cases their episodes are longer so they can cram in more ads because the price of ads might be coming down. Um, Dan Lefebvre from, uh, basedonatruestorypodcast.com: I listen to a lot of podcasts that I'm sure have an ad-free version, but it's so much more convenient to just listen without signing up for anything. Yep, there is a— there is a fast forward button. And so I just know, um, I remember— I forget her name— TV's Blossom, Mayim Bialik or whatever.

Dave Jackson [00:24:34]:
She started a YouTube slash podcast, and every time the conversation got good, she would break in for an ad. And I just went, yeah, never mind, your content's okay. It's, you know, it was— I will watch if you have somebody from The Big Bang Theory on it, but other than that I was like, yeah, never mind. Um, yeah, the, uh, You Choose podcast, the, uh, the whatever YouTube channel will freely get $500 Super Chat donations during an hour show. Keep in mind YouTube is taking 45% of that. Uh, it's not uncommon to have $3,000 to $4,000 per hour. Well, that's the— the good news is they're getting Super Chats. That's where I— in my presentation I pointed out that like, you know, if somebody wanted to go to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome.

Dave Jackson [00:25:24]:
Like, Supercast takes, uh, well, even they take less, but, um, what's the big one? Patreon takes 10%. Yeah, uh, you know, and because video is expensive, you know, YouTube is picking up the bill for this. Um, they're gonna take 45%, and that's why, because you've been— you know, it took you a while to get to the 1,000 people, 1,000 subscribers, and I forget how many hours you need to be in their plan. But meanwhile, they were picking up the bills. So I don't— you know, it's a bummer that they take that much, but I understand completely. And it's free. And while they're— I had a teacher in, um, junior high, there are no free lunches. That was like his mantra, that somebody's paying it.

Dave Jackson [00:26:10]:
And in this case, it's YouTube. So when you finally do make money they're going to take 45% of that because they got to recoup, you know, the, the, um, the reason there's so many ads in the Joe Rogan Show. They paid that guy $200 million. They got to get some of that money back. And so when you're paying for something expensive, well, you got to get that money back, otherwise they're going to go out of business. So it's, um, the, the ad load is, I think, going to be one of those things where it— and it is, it works in some cases. The Hallmark Channel YouTube are two classic examples of— they put so many ads in their content that there just comes a point where you're like, fine, take my money, just get these ads out of here. Although now that I know about the Brave browser, I didn't realize that was built into the Brave browser, browsers, that, uh, because I know when I, uh, when I do Podpage stuff and I go into YouTube, I'm logged in as Podpage.

Dave Jackson [00:27:06]:
And while we're not a premium member, uh, and I'm just amazed at how many ads I have to, you know, wait for the little skip ad button to come up so I can get to a video. Um, yeah, so he says, what I was trying to show is the whatever channel has no ads, it's all donations. Oh, well, there you go. Yeah, and that's again, if you can— for me, I always— advertising is a revenue stream. It's definitely one way you can go. It's also my least favorite. So, you know, I mean, if you can get people doing the Super Chat thingy, that definitely comes in handy, um, but you're— I, I would rather have somebody do a Super Chat thingy on SuperCast or Buy Me a Coffee or something that didn't take 45%. But, you know, and that's where there's a, uh— I was listening to Think Media and they were talking about— there was a faceless video, um, so it's just, you know, voiceover and images and things like that.

Dave Jackson [00:28:08]:
They had 580,000 subscribers, so that's not a small channel, and they were making money until YouTube went, I don't think so. And they just— they didn't take away their channel, they just, uh, demonetized, and they lost about $30,000 a month. And I'm like, so this guy made a great point. He goes, look, with YouTube, use it for the distribution, use it for getting your message out there, you know, feed the almighty algorithm. He goes, but any money you make from YouTube, like, that shouldn't be the grocery budget because it can, it can vary based on what they say and it can go away. It's like, it's, it's bonus money.

Jim Collison [00:28:49]:
So popularity comes and goes. I mean, this is, this is not a career— well Okay, this is, this is gonna be a weird statement, but it's just not a career choice in a lot of ways, right? You are, you're gonna have a pretty, um, finite amount of time to be popular in those. Many of those will run— the real popular ones— 3 to 5 years, and then folks— I mean, remember when Pat Flynn was everything? And he's still doing a lot of stuff, but he's just not in the spotlight as much as he was. You know, uh, well, he's on fire guy.

Dave Jackson [00:29:23]:
Yeah, John Lee Dumas. Well, he's— he kind of switched gears. Yeah, and he started doing Pokémon stuff, and he's huge. Like, he, he, he does a thing where he, he opens up Pokémon cards on a channel, and people are dying to see what he got. And like, he did one in the Detroit Lions football stadium. Like, the, the Detroit Lions, the company reached out and said, hey, would you come open up some Pokémons in our thing? Like, that just doesn't happen. So, but yeah, it's— and there are people that, that pivot into something else.

Jim Collison [00:30:01]:
Yeah, I think you have to. I think you have to, Dave. I don't think you can do the same. Not many people can do the same thing forever. Now, maybe you and I are going to be different and we'll be 90 and we'll be on Ask the Podcast Coach, you know, hanging out, doing our thing, because we really like doing this. I think that's the— that's more of the exception, not the rule. By the way, I have to say, I just, uh, I just fixed the error of my ways, and while we were talking, I subscribed to the TWiT Network. No, there you go.

Jim Collison [00:30:32]:
I admitted— I was like, listen, I listen to it a lot. That's probably my number one podcast. Windows Weekly is probably my number one podcast that I listen to all the time. And yeah, you know what, I hadn't been subscribed. I just subscribed. So that's, uh, that is a done deal. Of course I'm a subscriber here, even though I— even if I'm on the show, I— it's, it's— I'm at the bottom them wrong, but I want to see what you're doing all the time. So I, I subscribed to Ask the Podcast Coach as well.

Jim Collison [00:30:56]:
And there's a lot of questions in chat about ads. I don't think we're saying don't do ads. I think what we're saying is— or at least what I'm saying, I don't know about you, Dave— what I'm saying is do better ads.

Dave Jackson [00:31:05]:
Like, just be better.

Jim Collison [00:31:07]:
Yeah, don't copy radio.

Dave Jackson [00:31:10]:
Yeah, you know, um, because Dan says, isn't an ad for donation still an ad? Yeah, it is. It's, uh, it's, it's just a higher because for me, I, I throw open my mouth just a little bit when I hear people taking CPM ads for, you know, $3, and I'm like, it's 0.003 cents per person then. And I'm like, is it worth interrupting your audience for 0.003? And I'm like, and I'm like, and again, if I got kids to eat, I will do whatever I got to do, you know.

Jim Collison [00:31:45]:
Um, so it's kind of— listen to Gallup, our, our shows are ads. That's why they— I mean, that's part of why we do them, but they're, you know, you can say, um, infotainment, or you can say, you know, call it what you want. But the— we have a product, we create podcasts to help educate and tell people about those products. Do we do a hardcore sales pitch on the podcast, like, now go buy CliftonStrengths, it's only $49.99? No, no, no, we don't. We don't even tell you how to— on the shows, we don't even tell you how to get to it, like, in most cases. It's got— but we talk about it, right? That's the whole point of So if you've got a product you're selling, it is just— it's possible your show is a gigantic ad. But we've had millions of people listen to those podcasts because they're educational, right? They're, they're, they're fun. We have a good time with them.

Jim Collison [00:32:36]:
And in the process, we get an ad in there.

Dave Jackson [00:32:39]:
Yeah. Well, Ray makes a point here from aroundthelayout.com. And he says, did I hear you right? So how do you propose a podcast that's not directly tied to selling a product, generate revenue outside of running ads? Well, doing exactly what Ray does. Uh, Ray has an insanely, uh, engaged audience around model railroading. And so he's got a decent amount— a decent percentage— it's, you know, double digits versus 1 to 3% are signing up for his Patreon. And then yes, Ray does ads, Ray does partnerships, and I don't think Ray's making 0.003 cents per download on those deals because he realized I've got a powerful niche. He is a, a, uh, thought leader in that space. He's well respected.

Dave Jackson [00:33:28]:
And, you know, his— because of my podcast story that I just played a couple weeks ago, he had some guy ask him about doing a meetup. And there's a special name for them, but it's a, it's a, you know, model railroading meetup. And, um, Ray was helping him set one up in Australia, and the guy's like, oh, by the way, if I bought you a first-class ticket, like, would you come? Like, oh, who doesn't want a first-round free ticket to Australia? Go anywhere for a first— yeah, so Ray's doing it right. So yeah, that's— it's for me, I just think, like, let's say, you know, um, you know, if Ray gets somebody to sign up— I don't know what his, his Patreon is, but if it was $5 a month, you know, well, that's 2,400 downloads if it's a CPM of of, uh, you know, $5. So what's easier, getting 2,400 downloads or one person to give you $5 a month? You know, and it's not easy. That, that's the other thing. I— in my talk, there was somebody who said they started YouTube because they thought it would be easier to monetize. And I go, I don't know any easy way to monetize, period.

Dave Jackson [00:34:33]:
No matter what it is, you still— step one is you got to grow your audience first. Um, so it's tricky. Um, yeah, Dave says, I think most actors who are doing podcasts or YouTube are being pushed to do a lot of ads, mostly because they don't know any better. Yeah, that's true. I think I, I hear a lot

Jim Collison [00:34:50]:
of people— yeah, um, YouTube, real common YouTube format though is to have a video sponsor, right? A lot of folks, they've kind of all— I shouldn't say they all— many of them have moved to this, is like, this video is sponsored by— right, insert the name, you know. You know, uh, there. I was kind of trying to come up with an ACME name that I could use. And, uh, and then they'll come back to it at some point, you know, 5 minutes in or whatever, and do— and they're doing a whole separate ad. Like, it's different clothes. It's not— it's, it's host read, but it's absolutely— it's absolutely produced. And they sneak that in there. I actually— I don't, I don't mind that too much.

Jim Collison [00:35:30]:
I mean, because I can go you know, 30, 30, 30, right, to get past those ads if I want. Um, if I wanna— if I wanna do it that way, certainly that host-read style on YouTube, to do it that way defeats the, the, you know, if you're on— if you're using Brave, that's not an ad, doesn't show up as a YouTube ad. Um, listen, the YouTube ads are obnoxious. Like, that is the— YouTube just beats you to death with ads when you're there. It's a— it's, it's, it's worse than TV. It's worse than TV. And they come at weird times and awkward times, and things don't work out real well that way. But I'm not just— not a fan of the way they do that.

Jim Collison [00:36:11]:
But the host read stuff, not too bad. Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:36:14]:
Uh, Ray says, so I think we need to separate ads from CPM ads. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, because I, I still have a show on Libsyn, and I think I made 38 cents last month. Because it was like $3 CPM. And those are— and I say this, and I can say it because I was on welfare as a kid— that's podcast welfare in my book. And I'm like, look, if you got 30,000 downloads an episode, that might make sense. But I'm like, um— and then, um, You Choose Podcast says No Agenda Show spends about 25% of their show shouting out the people who donate. Yeah, it's— and the, the— it— that's a catch-22.

Dave Jackson [00:36:49]:
You, on one hand, if you don't shout them out, then they don't Donate, and that's why— to their credit, they have chapters. So when they go to the donate section, I can easily just go, let's skip to the next thing. And that they have a bunch of things, uh, right next to each other, none of which I listen to. I usually don't listen to the donate section unless I donated, then I want to hear my name so I can get all giddy. Then they do No Agenda meetups where people host their own meetups to do that. I don't really care about those. And I think there's something else that they do. So there's like skip, skip, skip, and then they're back to the news.

Dave Jackson [00:37:25]:
So, um, yeah, so it says, you choose podcast, more ads equals less downloads, which means more ads. Um, more probably— I, I need to find somebody to tell me the truth on this. I think CPM, the actual price, is going lower. And I've heard people say Dave's not right, but they haven't proven me wrong. And I'm like, wait a minute, um, because of AI slop, we'll take any CPM because they don't need that much to be profitable, uh, when you say, look, I'm not taking any CPMs under $7 or $10 or whatever you want, right? Well, the problem is, um, and I always equate this back to banner ads. Banner ads were used to make some decent money with banner ads because not everybody had a website until they did, and And the banner ad people could go, "We want to give you less money." And people would go, "Well, I'm not taking that." And then they'd go to the new pod— the new web guy. He'd go, "Oh, this is great! I'm getting paid!" And he'll take it. So, when you have more opportunities to put ads everywhere, when the person says, "Well, I'm not taking that," they'll just go to the next one.

Dave Jackson [00:38:34]:
And the bad news is, now we got this AI slop that'll take $2 CPM all day long. So, I can see where the price of ads might be going down. And I, I saw things like, you know, Libsyn used to announce the average CPM until it went down 2 or 3 months in a row, and then they quit doing it. I'm like, that doesn't look good. Um, and I just noticed that everyone I know that makes a living from podcasting added more ads. Why? Because if I need X amount of money and now the ads have gone down, the only way I can make the same amount of money is to run more ads. And, you know, so it's like, that seems to be what's going on.

Jim Collison [00:39:16]:
The definition of a downward spiral, right? I mean, you've gotta, you've gotta— I think you have to think through that. Um, well, I listen, the temp— the AI temptation is strong, right? I mean, look at Spotify's numbers of the number of songs now that are being added to Spotify on a daily basis that are AI, right? We like— it, it's exploded. And I, I think folks are going to figure this out. Maybe they have already from a podcast perspective, is it all becomes about volume, right? Yeah, in this case, this is the Walmart method of, of podcasting, right? Just lo— just, just a lot of it at bare minimum margins, you know. Yeah, and, and you're right, and you just kind of hope one of them hits. But if you're— if you put out 100 podcasts a day Maybe, maybe one of them will hit, you know, maybe something will get picked up. And I think in Spotify, this is what folks are hoping for, is they're just jamming music into the service hoping somebody will discover them and pick it up. You know, it will, someone will.

Jim Collison [00:40:19]:
There's going to be a few stories of— a few success stories of, you know, it'll get worse because then everybody's like, oh yeah, it's like right now they're selling all these AI crypto miners. You can, you can either— a couple hundred bucks and they're like It's a one-shot wonder. You've got a shot, you know, run this thing and you got a shot at hitting Bitcoin, right? Well, do you? Yeah. Will it? Probably not, but somebody will. And then there'll be a thousand people who are like, I missed my shot. I gotta do, you know, I gotta do this again. So, um, I, I think— I don't know if we're there yet, Dave, on the podcast side, as bad as Spotify is, but I think that's probably coming next, right? You know, hundreds, thousands every day.

Dave Jackson [00:41:01]:
The thing that was announced, uh, while I was in Nashville is Apple is going to open a new door to video. And so the first thing you have to know is if you hear somebody say Apple is finally adding video to Apple Podcasts, whoever said that doesn't know their history because Apple has embraced video since day one. It's been there forever. It just— it's hard to compete with free. And if you want— like, if I put this show as a true RSS video podcast, it would cost me more than $150 to host a 90-minute file 4 times a week. It's like— I forget how many gigabytes— it's a lot. And so it would be a lot of money. So consequently, we put it on YouTube for free, and that's why they take their 45%.

Dave Jackson [00:41:54]:
Um, and so now there's this new thing called HLS Um, and I'm not super giddy about it because it's primarily a feature for the, you know, the audience— nope. For the podcaster, maybe kinda, but it's really for advertising. It's— advertisers are gonna know now, did my ad actually get seen? And I'm like, okay, good, because I'm, you know, I don't want the advertising people to starve either, but It sounds like it's, it's— there are only 4 companies right now that you can do this with. This isn't— we're not going to see this till probably July. They just announced it. But it's this whole thing where, um, and I, I like this idea. So if you— so you push your video to Acast or whoever, and that's who's hosting the video, and then Apple cuts it into little itty-bitty bits and makes a playlist out of that. So they they send you, you know, let's say 10 seconds of video, and then here's another 10 seconds.

Dave Jackson [00:42:56]:
And the thing I think it's interesting is if you have— if you have a fast enough, you know, if you're on fiber, I still think it's going to buffer some of these. It's not like it's waiting till you're on second 9 of a 10-second clip to start sending that next 10-second clip. So I, I still can see where people might see the ad Uh, I— but it is just one of those where I'm like, okay, so I'm not super— but I love the fact that Apple is going to charge the podcaster, or in this case it's going to go to the media host, hey, I, I showed that ad to your customer. And the reason I like that idea is because now where people like, I, you know what, I gotta feed the kids, just throw whatever ads you have in there. And now if I'm gonna get charged for it people might think before putting in just any old ad, because I want it to work because I got to make money back on that. I'm— I hope— from what I understand, it's a very small amount because I'm not really crazy about podcasters having to pay for it. But anything that, um, that might, uh, get them to think a little harder on what kind of ads do I want to put in my thing, that, that part is interesting. Um, I think it's odd that Libsyn was not named because Libsyn has advertised cast and all the other ones, um, that were named there was a cast and the one that I can never remember from, uh, um, Spotify— it's not Spotify, it's, uh, starts with an M, it'll come to me.

Dave Jackson [00:44:28]:
Anyway, there are a bunch of them but they're all advertising companies that have hosting and I thought it was odd that Libsyn was not on that list. Um, Blueberry's not on that list. Blue Blair— Blueberry's had video since you know, a while. Podbean has— I, I finally found out Podbean has this unlimited video for $29. I'm like, how does that work? Because it's expensive to host a video file. Like I said, if we were hosting Ask the Podcast Coach, it'd be over $150 a month just to host the video. And Podbean does this thing where they put Podbean branding all over your video, and I'm like, oh, that's why it's $29. I'm like, that explains that.

Dave Jackson [00:45:10]:
Um, uh, You Choose Podcast said, would big podcasters put more ads in their show if the downloads go down? And again, if they have to eat, you got to eat. So that's the tricky part. If more downloads don't affect their downloads, then why would they reduce the ad load? Well, yeah, because then it's just more money. But there comes a point when the experience is so bad that people, you know— and unless your show is the only place that you can find out, you know, it's the Belgian waffle show and it's the only show about Belgian waffles, then, you know, then you can probably get away with that until there's, you know, son of Belgian waffle show. And now I can go listen to this one with no ads. I'm gonna do that. Uh, Dan points out, um, I don't think HLS is a new tech. No, it's been around for a while and Apple invented it.

Dave Jackson [00:45:58]:
Um, I worked for a tech company that used HS— HLS to stream videos back in 2010. Yeah, it's not new. Um, yeah, and then, uh, Ralph says, my concern is the new added cost of video was going to kill independent podcasters because the cost the hosts are going to pass along are going to make it more expensive. That's the thing I want to see. So, okay, so now Apple's like, hey, we're going to charge you a small amount to run this ad, and it's not coming from Apple, it's coming from the host, but we're— somehow Apple's going to know Apple that an ad has been seen. And that's the part— there's a lot of this we don't kind of get, but they're then going to charge the media host. My question is, are we ever going to know what Apple is charging? Because let's say they charge whatever, a dollar per thousand impressions, um, but that's funny because you get charged $2 per impression. That means that your media host jacked up the price Apple did.

Dave Jackson [00:46:56]:
So I'd love to see full transparency on this stuff because that's money out of the podcaster's pocket. And the other thing is, if a— nobody uses this, they're all just like, I'm just gonna go on YouTube for free, okay, great. And if, like, this might be a new feature that people go, oh hey, thanks, never gonna use it. We'll, we'll see. I— the, the big thing is, right, you upload— if you want dynamic ads in YouTube, you have to use their service. If you want dynamic ads in your video on Spotify, you have to use their service. This is one where you somewhat have control over that. And so it's— this is one I'm like, I can't wait till like November of next year when we have not only the tool in place, but, you know, is it going to show up on Apple Podcast on, on Apple TV? Right now it's not, but it's not rolled out.

Dave Jackson [00:47:53]:
It's rolling out in the spring or something like that. Um, yeah, Ralph says, not because of the secret API from Apple, the media host will take this as money— as a money-making opportunity. I don't know, because hosting video is not cheap. It's, you know, I, I wish I did the math, but you know, it's, uh, stereo 128 kilobit file, I believe, is a mega minute if I remember right. And I don't know what a video is, but it's easily probably— what do you think, Jim? 4 times bigger an MP3 versus an MP4?

Jim Collison [00:48:27]:
Uh, depends on how it's formatted, just to be honest. Yeah, you know, it's the resolution of it. I mean, you can get them down pretty close or you can blow them out. So that's, that's a, that's a hard part about video, and that's why everybody reformats your stuff coming in. It's why in the early days of podcasting they reformatted your audio coming in. Because they didn't want giant WAV files out there, right? They want giant lossless files. They wanted to crunch that down. The, you know, certainly bandwidth has gotten cheaper and, uh, you know, you sometimes wonder, self-hosting, like, if you're really going to do video and you really want to control it, are we at a spot where bandwidth's cheap enough to, to self-host if you want to try it that way and keep, and keep everybody out, right, from, from that perspective?

Dave Jackson [00:49:16]:
Yeah, and then you've got people like Sam Sethi, who is, uh, he's got TrueFans, and he's turning that into a media host. And it's based on the amount of bandwidth you use is the amount of bandwidth you pay for. So that's a completely different, uh, model. So, you know, and then Ralph says they're also going to have to create multiple video formats, so that'll increase the data storage. Uh, yeah, it's— it— to me, when I heard this, I'm like, this is a feature for advertisers. At least from what I've seen. And again, I, I've read a little bit of James Cridland did a deep dive on this, but I— when they were talking about it, I was like, who is asking for this? And it was like, well, we need an alternative to YouTube. And I go, okay, then give it to me for free.

Dave Jackson [00:50:01]:
Now it's an alternative to YouTube. I go, but if there's fees involved, it's an alternative, but it's not apples to apples. And so we'll see. I'm like, I'd— I would rather see more apps incorporate the funding tab so people can just click on a button and you send them over to Buy Me a Coffee or PayPal or whoever you're using. Um, you know, the— I think the people tag would be great for guests. I, I love Podroll. I, I, I, and I hear things like— I heard somebody say, well, Apple needs to integrate something like Podroll. And Podroll is that thing that says, hey, the, the host of this show recommends this show, that show, that show, and that show.

Dave Jackson [00:50:45]:
And I'm like, again, I, I love when people say things that already exist. If you go into Apple Podcasts, I'm like 98% sure that if you click on our show and scroll to the bottom, there's still a lot, uh, hey, you might also like— now I didn't make that list, Apple did. But to say that Apple doesn't recommend shows, I'm like, I think you need to do your homework a little bit. So Uh, but that's where, um, yeah, the, the media hosts are gonna have to— or I guess this is what Apple does, they somehow make a list of different versions. So if I'm in some third world country and I've got horrible bandwidth, I can download a much lower bitrate of video, you know. And I'm like, that's where I get— I sound kind of um, mean, where I go, yeah, if, if you're in a place that you can't download my show because you don't have enough bandwidth, you're, you're, you're not a pot— you're not— you're gonna have a hard time being a podcaster without bandwidth. So it's not that I don't care about those people, I'm just like, you're not my target audience. So, and then people are saying 8K is coming.

Dave Jackson [00:51:53]:
Do we really need 8K? Like, I've seen 8K, uh, at, um, NAB years ago and I just are like, I don't know anybody that's gonna look good in 8K because you can see every single hair on a person's face. And I was like, I don't need that much detail. So it's going to be— it'll be interesting to see. I just know everybody's like, oh, Apple announced this big thing, and I'm like, it is like— because when Apple moves, people, you know, that will change the industry. It's just going to be interesting to see. Uh, so, uh, Dan says, uh, talking to Ralph here, although YouTube is also a way for Google to make money, so I guess that's always the end goal for all big tech companies. Yeah, they don't want to do— they're not doing it out of the kindness of their heart. Um, they, they, they're here to make money.

Dave Jackson [00:52:40]:
So we shall see. Um, I did want to hit one question and then we can do our, uh, thank our awesome supporters here. But I saw this one and, uh, I thought it was interesting. And the person says, do you think podcasters overestimate how much listeners notice? Sometimes I wonder how much of what we obsess over actually matters to listeners. Things like tiny audio imperfections or episode length being a few minutes off, or whether an episode feels perfectly structured. As a listener myself, I realize I rarely notice most of that— I rarely notice most of that unless something is generally distracting. It makes me think that podcasters might be placing more pressure on themselves than the audience ever does. I'm curious how others here balance caring about quality without overthinking details that listeners may not even register.

Dave Jackson [00:53:33]:
So when I saw this, I was like, oh, absolutely people do this. I see people, you know, the fact that— well, normally my show is 20 minutes and this one was 18, and I'm like, yeah, it's not like somebody's going to unfollow. First of all, I rarely look at how long an episode is. I just go, oh, it's a new episode from Jim, play. You know, I don't really look at it. I think we obsess over ums and you knows, uh, because people do say, um, because it's not a problem until it is. Like when I have somebody, um, that just, you know, um, says, um, all the time, and, um, you know, it just— and then, um, once you notice it, um, it'll be interesting to see if, uh, Buzzsprout will pull all those out, because Buzzsprout, uh, which is who I used to host this show has a de-ummer built into it, but which will make that a very weird sentence. But I think people obsess over that.

Dave Jackson [00:54:26]:
I think there's just— it's like, you know, focus on the cake, focus on the content and the production and the, the, the background music and things like that. Uh, don't, don't— because they're blatant. Like, my favorite was the guy that said 'Hey, I'll be right back, UPS is here,' and then you get to listen to him walk to the door, get the UPS, and then come back and say, 'I'm back.' I'm like, okay, in my opinion, that should have been edited out. So, um, that's one of those things that, uh, I don't know. What do you— what do you think, Jim? You think people obsess over little things too much?

Jim Collison [00:55:02]:
Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah, they definitely do. Um, and I think they actually think too much about the things that don't matter and they don't think enough of the stuff that does, right? And so, you know, what that is exactly, I don't have a list, you know. I'm not going to be able to lay it out to you. It's going to kind of depend on your audience and what you do and how you do it.

Dave Jackson [00:55:23]:
And yeah, maybe read— maybe read the book of the author that you're interviewing, you know. Maybe do a little research and don't start off the show with, you know, so tell me a little bit about yourself because I didn't do any homework and I don't know who you are, you know. That's That's always good.

Jim Collison [00:55:40]:
So yeah, well, we all come at it a little bit differently. So yeah, you know, I, I think you've gotta— and this is, this is actually where it's really hard to know yourself, and you got to get some outside advice. Like, hey friends, I mean, this is where, you know, a group like this that we have in the chat room can say, hey, you know, would you listen to my show and give me some feedback? You may not like it, but, um, that, that may be a good opportunity to get some, some outside involvement because it's hard to see yourself. Right? It's hard for you to see some of those things that you're doing yourself. Uh, it's where a little coaching can help.

Dave Jackson [00:56:16]:
Yeah. And then, uh, Ralph says, but, uh, people don't want to hear that their content needs work. It's easier to let all the AI tools clean things up instead of building strong, remarkable content. They don't want real feedback. Um, I am of that opinion. I, I mean, I offer it all the time. We have listener parties at the School of Podcasting where you can schedule a time and people that want to get together and listen to your stuff will listen. And everybody I know that has done that has walked away with a better podcast.

Dave Jackson [00:56:42]:
And yet I'm constantly going, anybody, listener party, we got plenty of room. And I just— I— it is what it is. So, uh, but the people that I don't obsess over, um, wait, that's not the right transition. The people I do obsess over are the awesome supporters. And my mouse has disappeared. There it is. Um, and so people like, you know, AI Goes to College, my buddy, good buddy Craig, uh, Bourbon Barrel Podcasting, uh, she's awesome down there in Kentucky. I was in— I drove through Kentucky this, right? Uh, of course, uh, Ralph's in the chat room, contentcreatorsaccountant.com, along with Chris Stone, which is castahead.net, and all the other awesome supporters.

Dave Jackson [00:57:23]:
Thank you so much. Uh, and we always like to remind you, this show is a thinly veiled commercial for the School of Podcasting, where you Closest— closest. Yes, I made up a new word. It's part community, part courses. It's cruces, um, courses, coaching, and community. Use the coupon code COACH when you sign up, and don't forget there's a 30-day money-back guarantee. And, uh, speaking of feedback, um, you can get some honest, constructive feedback because if you're like, listeners party sound good, well, good, we can have our own listener party at podcasthotseat.com.. And if you go to askthepodcastcoach.com, that is Podpage.

Dave Jackson [00:58:00]:
And if you want to try Podpage, simply go over to tripodpage.com. And if you need more Jim Collison— and hey, who doesn't need more Jim Collison? Uh, right now I'm start going, are we going to go over 10% with all these ads? Go over to theaverageguy.tv. And, uh, it's time for our featured supporter, which is, uh, where we go to the wheel O names. And so who will it be? Sonic Cupcake, uh, good old Ed, or Max over at Aviation News Talk, or Shane at Spybrary, or Ralph, not only the, uh, content creator's accountant but also the financially confident Christian? We will find out when we click spin. And watch it be the ladies with the Olympics again. Nope, it is— oh, is it going to make it to Ralph, or is it Chris? It is the one and only Content Creators Accountant. So look, if you're a content creator and you're making money and you're like, hey, I want to keep some of this stuff that I've worked so hard— well, then go over to the Content Creators Accountant podcast. I'll have the links in the show notes.

Dave Jackson [00:59:07]:
Uh, thank you, Ralph, for being an awesome supporter. And this is where I always fail. Here we go. If, uh, this show Did we save you some time? Did we save you some money? Did we save you a headache? Did we keep you educated? Well, then you can be an awesome supporter. Say, hey, thanks for that value. I'm going to give some of that back by going to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome. So thanks so much for that. I am going to have to go back in time that and see what percentage of my show— because we do the coffee pour at the beginning.

Dave Jackson [00:59:39]:
We're also a 90-minute show. That's the thing. I always— that always kind of like—

Jim Collison [00:59:43]:
it would be good to know though. I'd like to know. Yeah, you know, that'd be good for us to know, like, what is our percentage between the, the opening ads and then, uh, awesome supporters.

Dave Jackson [00:59:54]:
It'd be good to know.

Jim Collison [00:59:56]:
Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:59:56]:
Here's a fun question, Jim, uh, what is something you're geeky about that you don't podcast about? Hmm, trying to think about that because almost everything that I'm geeky about I do podcast about. I mean, if you stand next to me longer than 20 minutes, I will start a new podcast. Um, I don't know that I have one.

Jim Collison [01:00:19]:
I mean, I'm, I'm a whiskey fan. I don't, I don't really podcast about

Dave Jackson [01:00:23]:
whiskey, so it'd be a fun show though.

Jim Collison [01:00:25]:
This way we're talking about— I can't. That's the thing, like, I, from, from a work standpoint, I can't. So yeah, you know, that's— I've got a, you know, maybe someday it'll, it would be, it'd be appropriate. I've— it's not that I haven't talked about it in the show, it's just if I came out with a show dedicated to it, it would probably— it would not— it would not go over well. And so you're just like, you know, like, uh, it's not worth it for me to go through the hassle of getting questioned on it or whatever. And so it's just like, yeah, no, I'm good. I, I do my own things with it, you know, behind the scenes. I'm okay with that.

Jim Collison [01:01:01]:
So yeah, that's an area I wouldn't— I wouldn't necessarily be able right now

Dave Jackson [01:01:05]:
be able to talk about. Yeah, I would be careful about— as someone who study alcoholism because I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years, You don't wake up and say, you know what, I want to be an alcoholic. You, you just start drinking it on a regular basis, and all of a sudden you wake up and you go, hey, wait a minute, uh, but I do want to point out that holy cow, that's right, we got a Super Chat from the one and only The Content Creators account. Thank you, Ralph, for that. Um, so we always appreciate that. Um, oh, and I need to hit the button again. I— wouldn't it be fun if I just left this going for the whole rest of the show, or it's just raining money for because if I don't hit stop right now— oh, there it is again. So that's— Jim is making it rain.

Dave Jackson [01:01:48]:
Actually, Ralph is making it rain, so

Jim Collison [01:01:50]:
thank you for that.

Dave Jackson [01:01:51]:
Yes, there you go. Uh, the other questions here we had lined up today, um, I thought this was interesting that, um, I swear I've done an episode on this, and I looked at, uh, for the, um Your Podcast Consultant Show. And I looked, and I do not have this, and that is advice for creating an internal podcast at work. And so for me, um, if somebody needs advice working from Lipson standpoint, make sure the IT department— like, make a generic one like podcast@yourcompany.com and then come up with a password, but make sure the IT department has it. Because, A, when, you know, Jill is your host and then Jill, I don't know, gets pregnant, gets hit by a bus, something that she's not going to do the show anymore, or I don't know, you fire Jill, somebody can get into the podcast stuff. Because there would be times when, like, hey, like, you know, Jill was doing the show, or Biff, or whoever, and they quit and we can't get into the podcast account. You're like, well, just email, you know. And I was always surprised at the IT department.

Dave Jackson [01:03:04]:
I'm like Can't you— all right, let's delete biff@company.com, recreate it with a password you have, and then reset your password. But it was always kind of a hassle to do that. And then the— my other advice is get somebody who wants to do it. Like, I think the cool thing about, Jim, when you were doing your, your show for Gallup, like, you liked it. I think you like to do it.

Jim Collison [01:03:27]:
Oh, for sure.

Dave Jackson [01:03:29]:
Yeah, I'd love to do it. I always love to hear the corporate podcast where it sounds like someone reading a ransom note letter. You know, they're like, thank you so much for tuning in to the Acme Podcast. I'm your host, Biff. You know, I'm like, ah. So any other advice for somebody doing an intern— well, they didn't say— oh yeah, an internal podcast at work.

Jim Collison [01:03:50]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd— man, this is an idea I've had for— when podcasting first came out, you know, 15 years ago, actually more than that, almost 20 years ago now, the company I was in, you know, you would do all these all-hands meetings, you what's in the, in the organization. There's 80 or 90 of us, so, you know, you put 90 people in a room to talk to them for an hour or two, and you start thinking like, um, that's a lot of money. And I said, hey, you know what? And this is the day of iPods, right? I— this was— I said, if we gave everyone an iPod, and then if we did these all-hands meetings plus any other corporate communications via the podcast channel, private podcast channel, you, it would be cheaper than, you know, then— and the understanding would be they would listen to this on the way home or when they're walking the dog or whatever, right? Get— regain that time back, right? And, uh, we got really, really, really close to doing that, and then they said no. And I didn't find out till later it's because they had sold the company and they didn't want it, right? So it— I was close to doing it on that. Of course, as we've moved into— you know, Gallup, as we've moved into podcasting, we've, we've talked about it several different ways. And I think we'll probably come back with a private podcast for like a subscription-only podcast that's available. So all those things are— they're great.

Jim Collison [01:05:12]:
They're great ways to do it. It's hard. I think you just— you've got to have internal support, like your executive team's got to support it because it's going to be a little different, you know, although, you know, today we wouldn't even need from an internal corporate communication standpoint, if you have some kind of centralized platform that everybody has access to on their phone that maybe they sign into, right, Teams or, or, um, SharePoint or some of those kinds of things, you can just put— you can just load the MP3 out there and click play. Every modern phone will just start playing it. You don't need a feed, so to speak, to be able to do that. Now, as soon as you do that, someone's going to ask well, how many listens did it get, right? You know, I put this— you know, you interview your CEO for— or your CEO puts out some content, and immediately, 5 minutes later, they're like, well, how many, how many, how many people are listening to this? How many downloads? So there's going to be some ways you need to track it. I think it's much harder to do internal than it is external, to be honest. Like, yeah, there's so— inside a company, there's, you know, company politics and company expectations.

Jim Collison [01:06:18]:
Oh yeah. Right? You know, it's just harder.

Dave Jackson [01:06:20]:
I think it's a harder, harder lift. Back in the early '90s when I just got out of college, they would have everybody drive to Canton, Ohio. So in many cases that was over a half hour, maybe even an hour— some people were coming from Youngstown, um, to basically have a sales meeting where somebody would say, get out there and sell, like win-win for the gipper kind of stuff. And I was like, wow. And they tried doing it via voicemail. You would listen to the CEO leave these really long, and you know, you're holding it up to the ear, it sounds like the phone. And that's, to me, I think one of the best ways of using an internal podcast is like you said, these meetings. But it is hard because now it's— the people can— and I always say,

Jim Collison [01:07:01]:
if you can hear it different about it, it's something different about it. It's, it's the, you know, it's your peers. Like, if you're gonna say you're gonna create something that's just internal for the company, now maybe it's just me, but I always found it harder to create content for— that group, the people I work with. Oh yeah, then the public— like, the public, ah, that's easy, I would do that all day long, you know. Uh, but all of a sudden when it's your peers, you're like, oh, um, yeah, this is a little harder.

Dave Jackson [01:07:27]:
I get way more nervous. I can get feedback when I walk down the hall now. Yeah, that's a little scary.

Jim Collison [01:07:33]:
Yeah, um, because they can punch you

Dave Jackson [01:07:34]:
in the face, right? Yeah, that's it. Um, here's another fun question. I don't think this is a tough tough topic, but Chris does. Um, what do you do when you love someone's content podcast but you come to learn about their worldviews and they don't align with yours? Um, for me, I always remind people Jesus hung out with tax collectors and they were the Nazis of their time. Now, you know, so for me, look, I love George Robb. Um, he's a great musician. We can talk about Monty Python, we can talk about music. We can talk about movies, we can talk about all sorts of stuff.

Dave Jackson [01:08:11]:
We're just not going to talk religion because George knows that I know that he knows he's an atheist and he knows I'm not. And we both— I don't— I'm not going to convince him. He's got his mind made up. He's not going to convince me. So I could cut all this great stuff out of my life because George doesn't believe the one thing that I believe, or I could keep 90% of the good stuff and let's just not do that. Like, George is a, uh, you know, he's an adult. He can think that. I'm an adult, I can think what I want.

Dave Jackson [01:08:42]:
And I, you know, it's like, it's one of those things I don't— you know, uh, I, I remember growing up when you used to talk about who you voted for, and if somebody voted differently, oh, I voted for whoever. Oh, who'd you vote? Oh, I voted for the other guy. Oh, okay. And it wasn't like, well, you need to let me be— it's like, no, it was like, oh, well, you know, our, our votes canceled out. Yay, capitalism, man., you know, America, you know, technically that's democracy, but yeah, democracy. Yeah, yeah, I was like, I know that's not the right word.

Jim Collison [01:09:13]:
I don't know, what do you think, Jim? Yeah, I think you just make a decision. So often we think we have to make decisions and then, and then announce them to the world. Imagine a world where we just didn't announce every single decision that we made, or every single, you know, every time we got bad service somewhere, you know, we got to let the world know that that was bad And I know why we do that, right? I get it. I understand. But I think sometimes just don't— just don't listen. Now, if you don't agree with it, just don't listen.

Dave Jackson [01:09:45]:
But maybe do too, you know? Yeah, if, if their content delivers value to you. Yeah, like if some— like, like, I never understand the whole— I mean, I get it, it's a way to protest, I guess. But like, if I wasn't a Christian, would I still eat at Chick-fil-A? I don't know, is their chicken any good? Yeah, then I probably would. Like, because— but it, it's, it's some people like, nope, I got to do everything I can to bring down this estate. Okay, well then you do you. Like, I'm, I'm very much a you do you kind of person. And I know some people like, well, you shouldn't associate— that to which I go, Jesus hung out with tax collectors. So, and you're not gonna win anybody,

Jim Collison [01:10:26]:
you know, you got, you got to make your own decision on this one, right? And figure that thing out based on your own values and what you're doing and and, and then face or don't face the consequences of it, right? Right. I mean, I, I think— well, George, certainly, listen, there's been values, there's been valuable times when people have spoken up and, and it's changed things, right? Is that every single time something happens? I don't know. This is— it's a great question. Like, should you, you know, when do you put your foot down and when don't you? This is— that's— that's part of being human, right? You just don't know, you know. You got to go with your values and your convictions.

Dave Jackson [01:11:08]:
And yeah, one of the top— one of the top 10 conversations I ever had, I think it was at Podfest, it might have been Podcast Movement. It's me, David Hooper, who leans a little left, Daniel J. Lewis, um, some kind of, uh, we will just say Black, uh, he was— but he was a military background. And a Black gay guy. And so a wide variety of people at this table. And I learned so much in that discussion. And we, like, we got into talking about driving while Black. And I was like, what is driving while Black? They're like, wait, you don't know about— and I'm like, no.

Dave Jackson [01:11:45]:
They're like, oh, they said, you know how you have the talk as a kid, like, with a, a boy, like, hey, we gotta have the, the sex talk. He goes, when you're Black, you have to— like, every parent Every parent will have a talk with their children about what to do when you get pulled over for being Black. And I go, like, that's a thing? And they're like, oh dude. And I'm like, well, I, I go, I, I'm not a racist, I just— everyone in my neighborhood was white, I've never heard of this. And then I go and started reading books and some other things, and I was like, oh, this is absolutely a thing. So if you only surround yourself— that's kind of the problem right now. Is, you know, the people that think the same way only surround themselves by people that think that way. And the same thing now on the other team.

Dave Jackson [01:12:30]:
So when you hear a different opinion, you're like, how can you even think that? And then, you know, then we're off to picket in the streets.

Jim Collison [01:12:38]:
So it's kind of crazy. It's a new problem. I think— no, I think this has always been with us. This is one of those kinds of times. Yeah, it— is it— is it more noticeable today? Maybe it's different, I don't know. But I, I— listen, I remember my dad had having these same conversations in the '70s. Oh yeah, I was growing up and he was saying some of the same things that we say today. And I, I, you know, if we want to— you know, there's nothing new under the sun.

Jim Collison [01:13:04]:
And I, I think we're the, the, you know, the— what's that song? Something about the old boss, same as the new boss. Yeah, that's The Who. The same as the old boss, right? I, I don't know if there's anything that, that different in it, um, but we are we are all here, right? We all are living on the same planet, and right now you can't really get off the planet efficiently, uh, maybe a few can, uh, but, but, you know, we've, we've got to figure out how to do these things, uh, we got to do these things together. At the same time, you got to live out your values too. I mean, and so you've got to, you got to hold your convictions. I mean, we, you know, we need some of that too. Um, we continue to just need great dialogue and great discourse where we listen to each other and, you know, get

Dave Jackson [01:13:50]:
to have an opportunity for that. George's show, The Geologic Podcast, he has a segment called the Religious Moron of the Week, and I tend to agree with him every week, uh, that there's people out there that I'm like, yep, that's— and, uh, George needed— he had some problems with lighting, and I had extra lighting, so I sent him a pair of lights. Why? To show him that not every Christian is a moron, and we actually are— can be helpful in that whole nine yards. Jeff has a point. Nobody's opinion is changed by a social media post. I always love that when it's like, you know, I really thought this way, but now that you said, you know,

Jim Collison [01:14:26]:
this person that, uh, you know— oh, I'm reinforced though. That opinion is probably reinforced, you know. That's, that's what really— in a lot of times, that's what those things do is they just, they just reinforce our current biases. We all have those, right? We all have these biases. Oh yeah, absolutely. That we lean towards and we do and so those social media posts are just a reinforcement. You know, we tend to put ourselves in circles that reinforce our own biases, right? That's more comfortable that way. Nobody wants to be confronted all the time about the way they think and feel, right? So we, you know, we bubble-ize ourselves and put ourselves in those places.

Jim Collison [01:15:02]:
All— everybody does. It's not a— it's not a one side or whatever. And then I also think we always think it's too— it's just one thing or the other, and it's really much more multifaceted than that, right?

Dave Jackson [01:15:12]:
When we think about all those There are shades of gray in there.

Jim Collison [01:15:17]:
Yes, absolutely. Many shades. Yeah, many shades in there.

Dave Jackson [01:15:20]:
So yeah, difficult topic, but it's a good one. It is a fun one. The, uh, also I, I kind of glossed over, um, Ralph has 100,000 subscribers now on his YouTube channel. So holy cow, it's good work.

Jim Collison [01:15:31]:
Yeah, that's a whole lot of people. It's a lot. It's a good— that's a good number. After 100,000, you can start doing some things. Yeah. And I mean, there's some, there's some things that, that I always say on YouTube, 0 to 50 is probably the hardest to get to. And then, yeah, 50 to 100, it can— will pick up pretty fast for a lot of folks on YouTube. That all of a sudden you start getting more and more subscribers.

Jim Collison [01:15:54]:
I think the algorithm favors that 50 to 100 slot. And then, uh, 100 to a million is some work. Like, that's the next— a lot of YouTubers stay between 100,000 and half a million, right? That's kind of for the, for the big ones, they kind of bounce back and forth. And there's some— those that get over that half a million, uh, seems to pick up again, right? The, the algorithm again favors that, starts to pick that up, and you get with it. The, the, the problem is comments. That's— yeah, post 100,000, you got there, Ralph, probably because you got some comments coming in. And, uh, and then managing those comments, and then And well, this, this, this pertains to both podcasters and YouTubers, I think, is if you start trying to be that person who— I'm going to read all the comments, I'm going to engage with my audience— one, it's just a giant chunk of time, and then two, your audience starts affecting you mentally. You start saying like, oh, then you start, start creating content in defense instead of being on the offense with your content.

Jim Collison [01:17:02]:
All your content becomes defensive. You're like, wow, so-and-so said to me blah blah blah. Then I'm gonna— and you start getting— I've, I've watched dozens of YouTubers then start— their, their content starts changing because they're getting defensive all the time of all the things that are trying to answer all of the— what I, what I wanted was a really positive experience with this YouTuber doing some great stuff. Then they're just arguing with their audience on, on the videos. I'm like, no, I stay out of the comments because I don't want that Don't you do that on your, on your YouTube videos. But it's a tough— I have yet to see a YouTuber— Ralph, maybe you could— you'll be the exception. I have yet to see a YouTuber not go down that path where they get sucked in by their— the negativity that's in the comments.

Dave Jackson [01:17:49]:
It's— and then they start being defensive. Well, it's either that or feeding the almighty algorithm. Um, uh, Jordan Harper Yeah, Jordan Harbinger was on, uh, uh, the New Media Show with Rob Greenlee talking about how there are YouTubers are like, I can't take a week off because if, you know, if we don't feed the algorithm, what's gonna happen?

Jim Collison [01:18:11]:
So it's tricky. Listen, you, you get addicted to the dopamine of money. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, and you, you, you can see it now. I mean, it actually makes a difference. These aren't 20s of dollars, right, that are starting to come in on the ad stuff that you're seeing. And you're like, oh, this is great.

Jim Collison [01:18:26]:
And then you do— you start, you're like, oh, this is— I mean, speaking of creating more content to get more ads, so you're like, oh, I'm gonna step it up to twice a— twice a week. Yeah, you were once a week. I'm gonna step it up to— I'm gonna do a bonus episode. And then pretty soon you're, you know, you're doing 5 episodes a week and you're just toast, you know. And then you start pulling back again. I've seen all these podcasters, or all these YouTubers— sorry, that's— I know that's not the same thing, right? These YouTube— I think it is. But anyways, the— this is where Dave and I see diversity.

Dave Jackson [01:18:55]:
That's it. And I have some How dare you?

Jim Collison [01:19:01]:
No RSS feed, no podcast. But I've seen these YouTubers do that, and then they start pulling back, and then their audience comes unhinged in the, in the comments and like, how come I used to— you used to, right? You used to be this or that. And, you know, and then they get all defensive and then their content starts— so the key is at those levels, at those YouTube levels, how do you continue to just just make the content you're making and not get sucked into

Dave Jackson [01:19:26]:
your own— yeah, your own void. Ralph says he's using a tool in vidIQ that'll help you write thoughtful comments. Yeah, that's fine. I, I did learn from the guys over at thinkmedia.com that I should be checking the comments within the first hour this goes out, because if you reply to the comments within the first hour, that somehow sparks YouTube —and they're like, and I'm like, I had never heard that.

Jim Collison [01:19:52]:
That was a new one. Um, for this show, for this show,

Dave Jackson [01:19:55]:
or for school podcasting? For any show, for anything on YouTube, check your video after the first hour and reply to all comments. Because what happens is they, they release it to your followers, and how well it does in the followers is— dictates a little bit how far that they put it out to the next audience, the next audience. Uh, one other quick question here as we get ready to wrap up. Uh, what tool— what's the AI tool you guys tend to use the most, and what areas does it mostly help? I have a bunch now. I mean, I use Otter at times because it has basically GPT behind the scenes. So instead of exporting it and throwing in a GPT, I'll just use Otter to ask it, like, I like to use the, um, write 10 titles for this episode and let me know which one's your favorite and why. Um, then the one I use probably the most is Magi because it has a whole— like, I've been using it to make, uh, whatever Nano Banana— I'll have Nano Banana make an image for the artwork. Uh, and then I use Castmagic often for show notes.

Dave Jackson [01:21:03]:
I like the AI that's built in to Captivate, but Castmagic has outpaced it just a pinch. So, and I— Castmagic I got when it was on AppSumo years ago, so I'm not paying for it anymore. So that, that helps as well. Jim, do you got any favorite, uh, AI tools?

Jim Collison [01:21:21]:
Yeah, two, two. You met— well, one you mentioned, Otter, uh, I've been using them a long time. And then, um, uh, Auphonic, of course, the stuff that comes out of Auphonic is super helpful. I've, I've paid for ChatGPT and are using that. I love using projects for that. So every every set of show notes gets built within a project because those projects can see each other and you can actually then add— if you want to add, I could say this set of show notes were perfect, do the— follow this format from now on, put it in the project. So the new versions that'll come out will be very similar. They're not going to be exact, but they're going to be pretty, pretty similar.

Jim Collison [01:21:59]:
And, um, I've been toying with Gemini some just to see, uh, cat— or, um, you mentioned this, um, Claude. Yeah, he's doing— there's— he's getting a lot among our software developers. Claude is getting a lot of run. I haven't tried it from a podcasting standpoint, um, because I'm pretty happy with, with ChatGPT and what it's doing. So it's, it's, it's great now. I, I love— I even feed the MP3 into ChatGPT, so I'll grab the aphonetic stuff, you know, it creates some stuff, I throw that in there. I— the otter creates and stuff, I throw that in there and then, uh, upload the MP3, uh, into that, uh, and that's about all it needs to get all the— it'll create an FAQ, a long and short description, um, right? Like this week I didn't— Erin Lawrence, so I did a little about section for her, and, uh, it does a pretty good job. I'm not seeing the hallucinations that I used to see, and I'm not seeing the errors that I used to see on some, on some of these.

Dave Jackson [01:22:55]:
So, um, well, if you want to learn AI, uh, go over to AI Goes to College. That's, uh, you know, the, the target audience is professors that are using, you know, AI, but obviously a lot of that applies to everybody. And Craig says that Claude is pretty awesome these days, although he still uses Gemini for anything. Uh, I used to Google— yeah, here's— I, uh, I had this song in my head, um, and the line is, I don't want to do this anymore, right? And I know it's a King's X song. So I go to Google and I go, find the song title for a King's X song where the lyrics are, I don't want to do this anymore. Um, and I— and it came back just goose eggs, just nothing but just, you know, not, not gonna work. I went to ChatGPT. I'm looking for a song by the band King's X.

Dave Jackson [01:23:46]:
The lyrics in the middle are, I don't want to do this anymore. Uh, what's the title of this song? I can't find hit search. Oh, the song you're looking for, uh, and you're right on, they repeat that over and over in the middle, is called Static. And I went, yep, that's why people are not using Google anymore.

Jim Collison [01:24:05]:
And got it right on. Well, and ChatGPT really wants you to feel good about yourself. Oh yeah, I don't know, I don't know about the others because I haven't used them enough to, to know, but boy, ChatGPT is like, oh, that's a

Dave Jackson [01:24:16]:
smart question, that's some of this.

Jim Collison [01:24:19]:
That's right, Jim, you're amazing. Golly, you're smart. I'm not here to replace you at all. That's never going to happen. You're the smartest thing ever. Can I do something for you today? There, uh, yeah, there, there's some interesting, you know, things going on with those for sure. It'll be interesting to see— ads are coming, right? So we— I just heard this week that, um, in one of them, yeah, right, they're gonna start— or it was maybe it was Gemini, I can't remember, um, but they're, they're coming to all of them.

Dave Jackson [01:24:46]:
Them.

Jim Collison [01:24:47]:
So if you think this ad-free experience that you're in is dynamite, get ready, friends.

Dave Jackson [01:24:54]:
So now, do you think it's giving you the best answer or the one, you know, like, oh, normally I would recommend, you know, this tool, but, you know, this tool is great as well and it does this and that, and if you order now with the coupon code GPT, I'm like, um, so I remember, uh, you know, RIP, rest in peace, Todd Cochran. He's like, it's gonna be a kingmaker maker. If they— you watch, they're gonna put ads in it, and then it's just— it's— now you got the kingmaker. And I was like, he's got a point.

Jim Collison [01:25:24]:
We'll see.

Dave Jackson [01:25:25]:
Um, it will for sure. Ralph asked the question, what happens if AI died tomorrow? Uh, there is some movie that I need to go watch. Um, it's something— Simplicity, for sure. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, Idiocracy. And the point is this guy wakes up and everybody's forgotten how to do all the basic stuff because— yeah, I

Jim Collison [01:25:52]:
haven't watched it yet, so, so— oh, it's good. Yeah, it is good. Yeah, that's what happens when AI dies. No, I, I don't think so. One, I don't think it's gonna die, but two, I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better again. So I think we're in the golden age of AI for— oh yeah, now, and then they'll have to figure out how to monetize this thing, and it's gonna— oh, they have to do really weird gyrations like like the early days when AI first came out, we're like, oh, it's hallucinating, it does weird things. Yeah, with ads, it's going to do some weird things for a while. So buckle up, friends.

Jim Collison [01:26:22]:
If you want to get away from the ads, you could look into doing your own local AI, right? You can use Ollama, or you could use, um, LM Studios. There's a whole bunch that you could download locally, add in those, those, um, LLMs, and you can do your own AI if you want to. You could roll your own. That's very, very doable if you're thinking in this advertising space. Do you want to get away from that? You could do your own, you could roll your own. So that's another way of getting away from it, or, or at least monitoring it as this stuff goes. I, I, I wouldn't— I, I like where we are with AI right now, so I don't want— I wouldn't want it to go away.

Dave Jackson [01:27:02]:
It's super helpful to me. Yeah, I know the nano banana thing is like, okay, I can, I, I can give it a horrible— I can give it a horrible prompt and it will still give me a good image.

Jim Collison [01:27:15]:
These things come and go. That's so gimmicky. A lot of those things kind of come— like, as everybody's posting these pictures of their job on LinkedIn, you know, here's the job, you're like, okay, it's cute, it doesn't look like you at all. You're, you know, it, it— the pictures

Dave Jackson [01:27:30]:
lost some— magically lost some weight. And what— yes, and, and why are you wearing something that's so low-cut with lots of cleavage at your job? I'm like, that— there's— it's like, what's up with that? Um, Craig from AI Goes to College says Claude's constitution Specifically states that it should avoid being, uh, sycophantic, which is one of them— their fancy words that Craig likes to use because he's a college professor. I, I do not know what sycophantic means.

Jim Collison [01:27:56]:
Do you know what it means? No, I don't know what it means.

Dave Jackson [01:28:03]:
Put equal— equals this.

Jim Collison [01:28:05]:
Yeah, uh, sycophantic. Psycho.

Dave Jackson [01:28:06]:
Being nice to you, is that what it is?

Jim Collison [01:28:08]:
Maybe, maybe that's it.

Dave Jackson [01:28:10]:
Maybe just aggressively nice to you.

Jim Collison [01:28:13]:
Yes. Jim, you're amazing. I can't get humans to be aggressively nice to me. When the AI does it, I'm like, you're so wonderful. You're the best. I haven't said I love you yet. That's— I'm holding that out.

Dave Jackson [01:28:27]:
Right. I haven't used the L word yet in there. Yeah. Well, Craig is running large language models on his new Mac Studio. So there you go.

Jim Collison [01:28:35]:
That's how you do them. They're okay.

Dave Jackson [01:28:38]:
They're still not as fast as some— in some cases. There you go. It means it's— you're not a suck-up. There we go. Oh, that is. Yeah. There you go. Awesome.

Jim Collison [01:28:45]:
Thank you, Craig. Well, it's sucking up

Dave Jackson [01:28:49]:
to me all the time. Uh, well, Jim, what is coming up

Jim Collison [01:28:52]:
on, uh, Home Gadget Geeks? I mentioned a little bit earlier, but Erin Lawrence, Tech Gadgets International, but she's back from CES. We talked about some new art TVs, which is super cool. Do you need a 4K doorbell? Speaking of video, right? Do you need a 4K doorbell? As well as to robotic pets. So interesting conversation.

Dave Jackson [01:29:14]:
It's posted right now, homegadgetgeeks.com. Yeah, I saw a reel this morning on Facebook. Somebody had been to some like robot convention and they had a female face. The rest was all body, but it was spooky. It was like the expressions and stuff. Yeah, it was, it was pretty close. I was like, all right, I'm like, that's That's where we're headed. It's funny that the first thing we have to do is make a female robot.

Dave Jackson [01:29:39]:
I'm like, guys are so predictable.

Jim Collison [01:29:41]:
That's a part of the industry that's always first. Yeah, that's it.

Dave Jackson [01:29:45]:
Yeah, so always first, there's big money in it. On the School of Podcasting, I am gonna take my presentation from, uh, that I did at NRB. And so it's not just YouTube, it's talking about video and it's talking

Jim Collison [01:30:00]:
about

Dave Jackson [01:30:00]:
monetization, it's talking about um, competition. And that's a fun one where it's fun with math, um, and we explain who really has the bigger audience, and the answer might surprise you. Uh, so that's coming up along with some more reflections on, uh, the, uh, uh, NRB event. It is kind of cool when you get whoever your group is, when you get them together and they all do something together. It can be be quite moving. So I was in a room of probably 2,000 people and we all sang God Bless America, and I got a little teary-eyed just the fact that, like, there wasn't a bunch of people fighting with each other and arguing. Like, we're all on the same page. So that was, uh, that was fun.

Dave Jackson [01:30:41]:
But we will see you next week with another fun-filled episode of Ask the Podcast Coach.