Podcast Names That Rank: Turning Searches into Subscribers

Dave Jackson: 0:22

Ask the Podcast Coach for August 9th 2025. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is, it's that music. That means it's Saturday morning. It's time for Ask the Podcast Coach, where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from theschoolofpodcastingcom, and joining me right over there is the one and only the very thirsty Jim Collison from theaverageguytv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison: 0:52

Greetings, dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Listen, there's nothing like a Saturday morning being awoken, awaken awaken, I think, is the right word At like 5 o'clock, 5 am, by tornado sirens.

Dave Jackson: 1:04

Oh, so that's been my day so far, like mom used to make. Yeah, oh man.

Jim Collison: 1:10

Anyway, it's great to be here. Weather has passed, everything is safe, battery backup in place, we're ready to do. Ask the Podcast Coach, let's do it.

Dave Jackson: 1:25

But the other thing is, even when those are done, it's not like okay, well, I'll just fall right back to sleep, because you get up in a panic.

Jim Collison: 1:27

I'm like, yeah, you hear the sirens. And then I'm like, well, I'm up, I might as well produce, might as well go down and produce the podcast. So I got it done. I was done by like 630. Then you're like, what do I do? So I did some wiring. Of course that's what I did as one does.

Dave Jackson: 1:42

Well, I was sleeping. You can turn off the breakers.

Jim Collison: 1:44

Nobody notices. It's all fine. That's a good point. It was a good time anyways.

Dave Jackson: 1:48

Excellent.

Jim Collison: 1:48

Well, I'm going to need this today. Yeah, I'm going to say that's it, I'm going to need this.

Dave Jackson: 1:54

And that coffee pour is brought to you by our good friend, mark over at podcastbrandingco. The beautiful thing about Mark is, besides the fact that he is an award-winning graphic artist and he's been podcasting quite a long time is the fact that you're going to get one-on-one service. He's going to sit down with you and figure out hey, what's your podcast about? If you've got an episode, he's going to go listen to it. He's going to do the work that sets him apart, because he's the marketing genius, not you. You're the podcast genius and you know your stuff, and so Mark can sit down with you. And it's not just artwork that he does. He can do your whole website. If you're doing a lead magnet, he can do the PDF. Are you doing a talk at podcast Movement? He could probably help you with your slides. Anything that is audience-facing, mark is the guy you want to talk to. Well, where is Mark? That again, of course, is over at podcastbrandingco. And again, anything you need to look good, mark is the place to go. Cappuccino hold the phone look good.

Dave Jackson: 3:04

Mark is the place to go. I'm surprised we never got flagged for that music. I mean it's royalty free, but it's still. I'm like we'll talk about that later.

Jim Collison: 3:15

I got flagged for some stuff. Oh, a big thanks to our good friend, dan LeFebvre, who has not been flagged over there, based on a true story podcast, on a true story podcast dot com this week, trail of Vengeance. If you haven't seen that yet, rob Hillard is the guest. Check it out today. Last week I mentioned he, I think I mentioned this. He had Dragon last week. So, bruce Lee, so if you're into that, you want to check it out.

Dave Jackson: 3:49

You should check it out today, based on a true story. Podcastcom and dan, as always, thanks for your sponsorship. But uh, let's, let's play a fun game, jim. Um, the name of the show is booked on planning. What is the show about?

Jim Collison: 3:57

well, I would think it'd be like project management things or maybe vacation planning stuff, something along those lines. I don't know. Am I close?

Dave Jackson: 4:05

No, this is why I told them I go. You might want to add a tagline, because for the record, I said the same thing. I'm like to-do lists and things like that. It says I'm the co-host of Booked on Planning podcast and we're funded through the Nebraska chapter of APA, which is Professional Planners Organization, which is weird, because you would think that would be PPO, not APA. But OK, just call me a stickler.

Jim Collison: 4:32

Well. Auditor of Public Accounts, APA. Is that the right?

Dave Jackson: 4:36

Maybe that's it.

Jim Collison: 4:37

Auditor of Public.

Dave Jackson: 4:38

Accounts OK, Auditor of public accounts. Okay, it says through this connection, we're applying for a grant to fund activities to help expand our reach, which has had steady but small growth. Over three and a half years we've been hosting On our show. We interview authors related to cities, design, planning, preservation, environmental issues, et cetera. And that's when I was like, if it's about city planning, you might want to add the word I don't know city planning to your name, Cause I would not have guessed that from booked on planning.

Dave Jackson: 5:10

Um, and it says and it says uh, what else are? We were thinking of trying to fund attendance to present table at design related conferences. That would be a great thing. Do some Buzzsprout ads this was in a Buzzsprout group Apply for South by Southwest? And then they ask are there other ideas that come to mind to grow your audience with a small grant or even free ways to do so?

Dave Jackson: 5:34

But to me, I think, like I, just a new member of the School of Podcasting, does a tiny boy I had it and I lost it. It's something it's not farming, but when it's when you it will come to me in a minute, but anyway she goes to a farmer's market where she sells her homemade, like goat soap and all sorts of things that they make there on the farm, probably sell some eggs while they're at it and all sorts of things that they make there on the farm probably sell some eggs while they're at it. And so I said, well, when you go to these things, do you have some sort of little sign that you could make it? You know, you print out an 8 1⁄2 by 11 that says check out our podcast with a QR code and she goes, oh, absolutely. And I was like, well, that's good, so anytime you can again, atinyhomesteadcom is the name of the show, and so anytime you're looking for an easy way, it really does boil down to who is your audience, when are they? Go there and, you know, make friends.

Jim Collison: 6:34

I don't think the title is as important in the niche as I mean you're. We both struggled to find it, but once for for folks listening to this, I mean this is a podcast all about city planning and I you know. Okay, I'm not, I'm not trying to downplay and just kind of say, like boy, that's a, that's a pretty deep niche of yeah, going in right, and so the, the title, you know, um, the planning title, so speak.

Jim Collison: 7:02

I don't know if it's as important booked on planning, his name of it Don't know. Because you're going to have to reach your audience one by one through contacts and referrals and some of the you know chances are. In a scenario like this, you could do advertising. I'm I'm not sure you you're gonna find that many people that way. This would be a podcast where you'd go to conferences, you would, you would work your connections around the country. You'd find other city planners I think that's that's really their, what they're talking about there. So you could get away with a pretty niche title and it's not gonna. I don't know if it's gonna matter as much. I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way. I think it could be. You know, I might've said booked on city planning because that's probably and maybe not, maybe not, you know, but I think they get away with it because it's in the niche.

Jim Collison: 7:56

It's like those really catchy or cute titles that people that make no sense. It's like an inside joke. You know, for the niche, you can. You know, you can kind of kind of. You know why I think about our friends over there at critical role, who you know, you don't. You don't know what that is. It's still giantly popular because it's catchy to the niche and they, once they started getting out there, of course I mean they're voice actors, they have a lot of contacts, so they were already juiced before they got started. I'm not sure the title would have if they would have added D&D or role playing or any of that stuff in there. I'm not sure that would have mattered either. So I don't know.

Dave Jackson: 8:38

I always look at it. What are people typing in trying?

Jim Collison: 8:41

to find your show.

Dave Jackson: 8:43

You know, it's like the guy that names this show Inside the Dugout and then wonders why nobody you know is finding a show. When they type in baseball, I'm like because baseball is nowhere in your title, in any of your episode titles. Like you got a little too cute. So Tom has a great idea Just put a QR code on every egg and I'm sure that's possible. I've seen where there's one company, eb Mike does. That stand for Easy Break. I always wonder what it is, but there's some egg brand here in Ohio that they have little EB on every single egg, which is always interesting. Yeah, I have permission from the band King's X. I have permission from the band King's X, permission from the songwriter and I got.

Jim Collison: 9:28

They don't know that well.

Dave Jackson: 9:30

And I chopped the song if you Go Tell Someone is the name of the song and I chopped it to bits and I said can I play that? And they're like yeah, that's fine. And I was like 99% sure that when they put out that album they weren't on a label anymore. They put it out themselves. Well, apparently a label has bought that album or something has changed. And I got a thing on Spotify saying hey, we have flagged three episodes and I'm like three, there should be about 300 that used that song and it said do you have uh permission?

Dave Jackson: 10:06

and the option was you clicked on the drop down and it was like permission from label and I was like, oh, it's the only option I got. I'm going to say I have one of those and so far nothing else has happened. Yeah, but uh how?

Jim Collison: 10:18

when was that?

Dave Jackson: 10:19

was this week that was, I think, last week, something like that it may take a while for all yeah.

Jim Collison: 10:25

YouTube is pretty fast about that. Like, they have a pretty fast process. You get a form, you get to copy and paste some things into that form, that kind of prove. This was a while ago Maybe it's changed, but that was a pretty efficient process and then you get back to it it's Spotify, okay, so process. And then you get. You get back to it it's spotify, okay, so I don't. I don't use spotify, but do they have? If that happens, do they have a weird monetization thing that happens, like on youtube, where they stop your stop.

Dave Jackson: 10:52

you're not allowed to monetize anymore I know, if you're a big shot, smarty pants, and you have bazillions of downloads, they do have an advertising, some sort of leg that you can get involved with, of which I'm not using, but I'm not really. I mean worst case scenario. I just removed my show from Spotify. I'm like that's okay, it's for the school of podcasting, for whatever reason. It is a small percentage on Spotify. I get a lot of Apple and Overcast and Pocket Casts, but not a huge amount on Spotify, so that's fun. Mark says that on his show, practicalpreppinginfo, we use some of Krista. Krista is his wife and co-host Her original music. She owns the copyright and yet I keep expecting to get flagged. That's it. You don't want to make her upset. She's going to make you pay for the music for your show. And then Danny Brown from Captivate Spotify flags off. And yes, they do. They're looking to move creators to Spotify for artists if they feel podcasts are using music too much.

Dave Jackson: 12:04

Yeah, there was a thing, did you see? The? It's my favorite thing ever, because you know me, I love words, and YouTube, on YouTube's channel, put a thing out that you can now swear in the first seven seconds of your video, but you can't. Oh, I forget what they called the F word. It wasn't like major swearing or it might have been strong swearing and the guy actually said you need to pick your carefully. And it was just the weirdest sentence ever to just go Well when it comes to the word. Oh wait, I need this. When it comes to the word, you know you need to pick your carefully and I was like what? So it was, and he just said it so deadpan and uh, it was.

Dave Jackson: 12:54

When you log into YouTube in your studio, there's usually a channel there from YouTube, there's usually a channel there from YouTube, and so they're like you can say you can say hole, and you can say you know that name that rhymes with which. Those are fine swear words. They're not upper level, you know. You know preeminent, it's my favorite is George Carlin. He said that you know you save that word to the end of the argument. It's like, hey, man, and the horse you rode in on. So it was just weird to have YouTube say and I guess it has to do with advertising, because of course everything comes back to advertising, everything comes back to advertising and I just thought it was odd that like, ok, I'll sponsor your show if you say this one, whatever insert, but if you drop the F word, yeah exactly, danny says well, buggery out, right?

Jim Collison: 13:55

You know they stay in there. They even YouTube says in their, in their guidelines they say we may allow vulgar language when the primary purpose is educational, documentary, scientific or artistic and it isn't gratuitous right. Right, that's it, there's another fun word, yeah, and you're like so it's still a judgment call. I mean, this is lawyer, speak for judgment call.

Jim Collison: 14:17

Like we can make that decision on what it is right, for example, the title of a song with a curse word or a song that contains large amounts of profanity. Remember that giving context in the content, title and description will help us and your viewers determine the primary purpose of the video. So, like they've definitely left the door open for judgment in this scenario, I listen to a bunch of podcasts and they're cursing like sailors. Then there are big podcasters in there. I don't think they're monetizing, I don't know, because I block all the ads, but the yeah, I mean it's kind of a, they kind of leave it open.

Dave Jackson: 15:01

Yeah, see, I just get worried because for me, especially the F word, that is, that's a sacred word that I do say for the end of the argument and I don't want to see it watered down to where, like there's a you know second grader just dropping F bombs left and right and I'm like no, no, no, that one needs to have you know, because otherwise how are you going to know if somebody is really upset. Like we're going to have to come up with a whole new set of swear words. Where going is now like he said going.

Jim Collison: 15:28

I can't believe he said going, you know, or whatever you know Well and let's remember, they're not taking you down for this.

Dave Jackson: 15:43

They're their age. They're putting the age, they're slapping the age restriction on you, which now requires that person to sign in and verify their age if they're going to watch your content. Well, the other fun thing speaking of, did you hear that Europe is now going to age verify? So, spotify, I think it was YouTube as well they finally deemed that YouTube was a social network. I think it was YouTube as well. They finally deemed that YouTube was a social network.

Dave Jackson: 16:08

And if you're under 16, you're not, I don't know how, if you're just banned, which is kind of good. But I'm like, have you seen? Like I remember we put some sort of. When I was married, we put some sort of restriction thing that was supposed to restrict their time, I think the time thing, nope, whatever it was, it was like playing whack-a-mole, because you're going up against, you know, a 12-year-old and we're like, okay, we want to, you know, block his access to certain things. And what was funny is we installed it and we turned it on. Like we logged in as him went to Google and typed in boobs and just got boobs all over the place, and we're like, well, this is clearly not working, because if I'm 12 years old, the first thing I'm going to Google when I get on a computer.

Dave Jackson: 16:45

Yeah, so. So my whole thing is a I guess you have to put personal information in to prove that you are over 16 or whatever. And I'm like, oh good, cause you know that's not going to get hacked and used in nefarious ways. And also, what if your audience is 16 and under, like not so much for kids, but like you know it's pull my finger jokes and all sorts of you know you're talking about K-pop or whatever Like you could lose a chunk of your audience because this, so I'll be interested to see.

Dave Jackson: 17:25

The other one is I was listening to James Cridlin and it was something ridiculous like 0.8, like a new release or a new podcast. How many are? A lot of podcasts get released every single day, like a lot, like a ton. So how are you going to police this? Who's going to go? Hey, wait a minute, you're not 17.

Dave Jackson: 17:45

So it sounds, on one hand, I'm like I kind of applaud because I really think social media is is not good for kids, but on the other hand, I don't know. So I kind of go yay, but I also, when you look at the actual what it would take to pull that off, I'm like I think the genie's out of the bottle. On this one, I'm like I don't think that in every. I mean, I was at a birthday party last night and the little kids are, I don't know, six or seven. And how do you keep them? You know, know, still, while we're all sitting around talking like adults, you just stick a screen in their face and I was like, yeah, okay, all right, couldn't give them a toy or something to play with, but that is, it's a toy. So. But those are two stories in the news that I was like, well, that's interesting.

Jim Collison: 18:33

So jim will have to clean up our act and not say, you know, uh, every 10 seconds I know, I think I can count on one hand the number of times a curse word has made it into the show. It is not. This is not one of them.

Dave Jackson: 18:47

Yeah, so we do have a question from Ralph, and this is a good one. We brought this up at the School of Podcasting because I realized kind of sometimes what Ralph is looking for. Is this more name recognition? And he says I want to get speaking gigs and guest appearance spots on TVs and other things. How would one go about doing that? Would you hire a PR firm? And that's what I asked. I was like, does anybody know either, a somebody who coaches people on how to get on TV? Because that is not, I mean, I.

Dave Jackson: 19:18

The only time I've been on TV was through, again, podcasts to relationships, and relationships lead to opportunities. So I know Matt Rafferty, who does the author inside you, who also happens to work at Channel 8. And what was interesting is he got me on TV on Channel 3. So, you know, birds of a feather flock together and they were looking for a podcast guy and Matt's like I got the guy. So that's how I got on TV, but I don't know if there is a you know kind of uh you know, yeah, there are there, there are, there, are.

Jim Collison: 19:54

You know, you'd get an agent of some sort right now. You, you know, you sit, you hear, think of a television, you know an actor. Well, that may be, that may be one of those. They have all the inside um knowledge and people to get the right connections, like in your case, where a tv station will reach out to the who they know in that space and say, hey, can you get me a podcaster? And then that person and their network would find them and provide them.

Jim Collison: 20:21

Right, you've got to be ready to do it. You've got to be ready to do it on the drop of a dime. You've got to be good. You can't mess it up the first time. Right, you've got to be ready. Some of those kinds of things.

Jim Collison: 20:33

Listen, in the space, I podcast with coaches. Right, every coach writes a book and you, right, every coach writes a book. And you can. You know you've written books, dave, but you've self published them and that's a lot of work and it's really hard. If you want to, if you want your book to go somewhere, you got to, in that case that book will open some doors to do some things for podcasts and beyond things and keynote speaking, that whole circuit, right, I mean it's as much work. I know lots of people on the circuit. I know it's as much work to get in and be on the circuit.

Jim Collison: 21:17

And then you've got to. You got to keep it up. You can't ever, you can't ever take a break Like the second. You take a break. People forget your name and so you're constantly working at this, you, and then whoever's representing you or whoever you're working with. So you got to find I don't have names. You got to find somebody you trust, got to reach out in that space, find who's represented someone in this way and been successful with it. Plenty, let's like, in the podcast place, plenty of podcast gurus who've never even had a podcast. So you got to be careful about that.

Dave Jackson: 21:46

But I think it drives me nuts.

Jim Collison: 21:48

No, it is what it is. I mean, it's just, it's just the nature, that's the nature of the beast. But there are folks who represent. So you know, those are some avenues. Folks Pay somebody who knows people who can do that. In most cases we don't know television people, right, so we can't. But for someone who represents a bunch of people, that's their job to get you in, you're going to pay them to do that. Yeah, I'd find an agent for sure.

Dave Jackson: 22:15

Yeah, mark says, go directly to the show producers, especially local shows. That would be definitely, you know, definitely going right to the source. You never know. The fun part of that is you don't know how they want to be. That's where, like when you said, when you know somebody who knows what they want, like I know on Monday's show I interviewed Justin Moore for this week and when I go, hey.

Dave Jackson: 22:41

I love whatever the name of this is. Oh, a walla water bottles. And I take a picture of myself going I love your stuff, like that sounds like a good idea and send it to them and in reality, no, they don't care. I mean, they kind of care, but they don't really care. There's because Justin worked with all sorts of advertisers and brands and he's like, yeah, that's because it sounds good, you know, but that's not really how they want to be contacted, you know. So that's where, when you deal with someone, you know, jeff says Jeff, see, I've been told agents aren't worth it, but getting inside speaking bureaus are worth it. Yeah, I think I'm part of eSpeakerscom. I forget how much it is. There are a few of those, so we'll see, but it is one of those things. Here we go, tom would know.

Dave Jackson: 23:37

Author of the book. The author is listening. The author the audience is listening. The author the audience is listening. Do I not have my copy on my desk, paul? What's wrong with my brain today?

Dave Jackson: 23:48

Tom, I hold up your book on a daily basis to people. A publicist is what you're looking for, he says, but you pay for what you get. Yeah, there's that whole like do you know anybody that you get? Yeah, there's that whole like do you know anybody that does it for free? Yeah, that's no, that's not a thing. So, uh, help a reporter out might be a source. Yep, that's still around. Um, I got mentioned in the orange County register, which is a newspaper out in California, and it was like a sentence and a half, but that's enough to you know. Grab their logo and put it on your website, as mentioned on the Orange County Register. Or you could just make up a name for a newspaper you know, the Evening Gazette or you know, and for those of you that are younger, newspapers are these things that people used to read. They were delivered to your house and you could take silly putty and roll it on the newspaper. And do you remember doing that?

Jim Collison: 24:42

Yes, especially the comics. Right, the comics were the best.

Dave Jackson: 24:46

That was the best. I'm going to roll over. Beatle Bailey, Do you have any idea of how to find the best one, or how to even search for one Without sounding snarky?

Jim Collison: 24:56

perplexity, Google, you know you might, I would ask, I'd ask people who are in that space, people who are being successful this way and saying hey, can you, would you introduce me to your publicist? Or I know Larry Red Hat. Larry man, what is?

Dave Jackson: 25:14

Larry's last name? I can see him. He's got black glasses and a big red hat Red Hat Larry man. What is Larry's last name? I can see him. He's got black glasses and a big red hat Red Hat Media Larry. Anyway, he's got a guy or a woman, I don't know what it is. He has some sort of speaker person that goes out and gets him gigs and he talks about AI which, as you imagine right now, you know soon coming to Frosted Flakes, now with AI. So, as you imagine right now, you know soon coming to Frosted Flakes, not with AI. So that guy and he's been on Larry would be a good guy at redhatmediacom. I'm going to guess. Why can I not remember Redhatmedia? I'm almost positive that's his website.

Jim Collison: 25:53

I'd email Pat Flynn to see who he's using. Pat's a pretty good guy and pretty responsive to some of those kinds of things. Let's see what he, what he um what he thinks.

Dave Jackson: 26:03

Larry Roberts. There we go, um, red Hat Media, larryrobertscom, and he is. He is now kind of what you're talking about, ralph. When they need an AI guy on the local news, they go to Larry and he's. I see him on, um, the. In fact, if you go to Larry Robertscom uh, which is good on you uh, davidjacksoncom, the guy has basically told me he's going to get a restraining order. If I ask him to sell his domain again, he's like please quit asking me. And there's nothing on it. That's what bugs me. I'd be fine If he had a nice website nothing on it. Um, what bugs me? I'd be fine if he had a nice website nothing on it. So I would reach out to Larry. Larry's a really good guy. He's a talker, just so you know. He's, you know, as are most podcasters, but I see him doing. What I think is what you're trying to do, and it's not as easy as it looks, you know.

Jim Collison: 26:58

but if you start now and start planting some seeds, then, uh, you know, you'll get some I just I just googled agents and publicists in omaha and again started giving me a list of breaking down who's available and um what they do. And then, of course, you like anything, you're just gonna have to check them out and see what you know, see what they've done, look for references, some of those kinds of things.

Dave Jackson: 27:23

Yeah, I know, being on TV was weird because they pre-interview you and they're like, okay, yep, you're going to come on. Here are the four questions we're going to ask you, and we have to keep it under four minutes.

Jim Collison: 27:36

And what was?

Dave Jackson: 27:37

weird, was I? So you really have to practice. Like, I didn't want to memorize it, but I kind of had to almost memorize it. And I remember, as I'm driving up to Cleveland, that I couldn't do the same answer, exactly the same, because I'm, dave, right, I'm going to go ADD on you. And so I had to just tell myself all right, this is not going to be perfect, like it's just, let's. Just, let's be okay with the fact that I'm probably going to botch this a little bit, but do your best and don't stress out over this. And I I think I meant to say magazine and said newspaper or something or whatever it was, but it wasn't the answer that I'd planned. And so in my brain I just went okay, the pressure's off, you don't have to be perfect, you've already blown it and I was fine for the rest of it. But it was just one of those where I was just.

Dave Jackson: 28:29

You know, it was the first time I'd been on TV Golden Opportunities, it's one of those Sunday morning shows at like 1030 that you're like, wow, I've been on TV and the only person that saw you was like your dentist. That just happened to be up on a Sunday morning. He's like were you on TV last week? I'm like, actually I was, because I thought that was you. So likewise, it's a lot of this. Is it just looks good because John Lee Dumas back in the day was mentioned in Time magazine as like one of the top 100 whatever things list right?

Jim Collison: 29:05

Most handsome guys ever, I think.

Dave Jackson: 29:07

Right Influential, I don't know what was going on and he said that he goes. That moved the needle. Zero, like, yeah, he goes, it came out and he goes. And then I appeared on Pat Flynn show and he goes, and that moved the needle. So again, sometimes it's not about having the biggest audience, it's about having the right audience and in the case of Time Magazine, maybe not a lot of solopreneurs reading Time, I don't know, but a lot of them were when they're going to Pat Flynn. So he was on the right audience for the right people, kind of thing, and, uh, that that moved the needle. So keep that in mind as well. Um, I got one rich graham gave us a question that I'll, oh hold on.

Jim Collison: 29:52

Tom webster says oh yeah, being able to speak in sound bites is key to getting back back, to ask back for sure and having, I think, having things a well practiced in the way you say them like it's super helpful, especially in areas like radio and tv, where you you have the pressures on you gotta say something, um, in a short period of time, and there are in your space, you being what you do in your space, there are ways that you can say things that are are compact and efficient and yet practiced and timed. Right, you kind of need to be a little funny too. You need to be interesting and funny, right, the people like that. And so I have found, as I speak at these various events and such, the more I can lean on, some of my practiced content doesn't feel practice because I can say it in a way that comes across natural, that has natural timing to it and some jokes. I know, in certain things, the way I say them. You know I do four or five of these presentations every week now for what I do, and yeah, and you, you, it's the same speech each time. It's done differently, but I know how the I know how these, these concepts are going to land with people and so you have I mean, listen, standup comedians don't make it up every time they get up there.

Jim Collison: 31:11

Why should you? You should have your pitch practice. You should have your content nailed. You should be able to go into a place and they say talk to me, we got four minutes, we're going to talk about this. Your brain should say, okay, I got four minutes, I got two things. I'm going to tell these jokes and this is how this is going to work. Right, and you go in and it sounds good because you've practiced it, and I just can't.

Jim Collison: 31:36

Newer podcasters or folks that are wanting to do media stuff or folks want to be on front all the time think they can wing this stuff. I just wing it. No, no, you practice it. Right, you get good at it. You have, you have some things nailed down. It's just like when these comedians go on the you know the late night talk shows, right, that's none of that. None of that is natural. It's all planned. Right, it's all.

Jim Collison: 31:59

Craig ferguson, maybe one exception, because he would rip, he would tear up the card and throw it away. He didn't care, but but um, most of the time they're like okay, I'm gonna tell this joke? I want you to ask me this question because I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell this joke, right, it's all, it's all rehearsed. So make sure you have your pitch and not just a pitch. But I think you got to have a bunch of pitches ready to go, or a bunch of things that you've said, that you've practiced and you know the delivery, you know how to get there, you know how to land it. That's what makes you interesting to people and that's what gets you invited back when you know your stuff. If you get there and it's a bunch of stumbling around, no, yeah, yeah, probably not going to get invited back.

Dave Jackson: 32:40

Yeah, jeff C says I've been practicing my talk at CX for two months. I will probably do my presentation at podcast movement about 30 to 40 times this week, and it's not to memorize it what I have found. All I want to do is get to the point where I know what the next slide is and then and then I time it because I never want to be that guy that runs over. But I have for me. I have found after about 20, my brain goes oh you know it'd be a good joke here. Oh, you know it would be. This is a good story to fit here. This is and all it's like. I've got the basement built. This is the seven things that make you do blah, blah, blah. Then it's like how do I make this entertaining and fun and stand out and blah, blah, blah. So, um, yeah, tom says winging it. Um is, uh, a disrespect to the audience. It isn't authentic. Yeah, exactly Hashtag, cranky old man.

Jim Collison: 33:33

Yeah, that's uh, that's not good Um well, listen, I've, I've, I've been around a lot of folks who do a lot of presentations, right, and I've gotten. The first time I've heard him, you know you're like, oh, that was amazing. I mean, that sounded like it was so authentic and so like they were there in the moment and so like. And then a couple of weeks later I might've heard him again Like I was so like, oh, I want to hear this guy again. This is going to be great. And you go the second time and you realize it's exactly the same thing. I mean, exactly Jokes come at the same spot, they're said the same way, right, but the presentation is so good, it feels natural. I think when you're overprepared, it allows you to be spontaneous and it still be authentic and complete. Be authentic and complete, and so you just gotta I think you just gotta get it. The more you do it and the more you practice and the more you have some of these things down, uh, when you go to do them, the better they, the better they are, Uh, and I think people are more comfortable with it.

Jim Collison: 34:31

Dave, you've been, you've been in a session, I'm sure, in one of these conferences where you know the speaker is either so nervous it's incapacitating them in some regard. Or they weren't ready. And you know in the first five minutes like they're not ready for this and you feel embarrassed for them. And then you stop listening because you're worried about them. All of a sudden you take on their emotion. You're like, oh my gosh, they came, there's 400 people in this room and they're not ready and you're embarrassed for them, right. And then you don't hear a word they say, because the whole time you're worried about the things they're going to say. So be ready. When you get these opportunities to do this kind of stuff, please, friends, be ready. When you go in, don't think, oh, I say this all the time. I, friends, be ready. When you go in, Don't don't think, oh, I say this all the time, I can just kind of wing it. Don't do that, Don't be that guy?

Dave Jackson: 35:23

No, that's not at all. Uh, chrissy over at uh creating great grooming dogs says yeah, these are performances, so you don't want to ruin it.

Dave Jackson: 35:31

Rich says uh, I saw Bert Kreischer. Um, he spoke as if he was talking it, you know, basically making it up all on the spot, like he just thought of it. But I'm sure that was well planned out. It was all planned. Yeah, stephanie says I was just invited to speak. Congratulations to a group of writers. Good to know that. I will start working on it this week. It's about a month away, yep.

Dave Jackson: 35:53

And this is where you can fall into a mistake, because, like my talk at Podcast Movement is like the eight ways you can monetize a podcast and which one's the best for you. Well, I've done that kind of same talk monetization eight million times and so, but this one's different, like which one's best for you? That's the thing that I'm doing different. And there's a part of me that could go. I just need to rearrange some slides and I'll change the title slide and we're good to go. I'm like no, no, this is like this.

Dave Jackson: 36:24

And, man, when COVID came and I could not speak on stages anymore, we saw business drop. I make a lot of connections and, you know, it's a way to boost your authority to a certain extent, because not everybody's standing on a stage and also don't be a prima donna. So I don't know. I'd have to double check, but I know some of the stages are inside the vendor hall, so you're battling the sound of that and you could go. Oh like no. No, you have a stage and there are other places that people could go. So if you end up speaking to seven people, treat it like it's 700 and do the best you can, and maybe next year you'll be on the big stage. So it's one of those things that it just takes a lot of work. For me, this is the thing just after you do it enough, when it's about five minutes to talk, talk, my hands, which are already pretty white, turn like like Casper white and they and they start to sweat.

Jim Collison: 37:28

And it's like.

Dave Jackson: 37:29

I'm like, oh look, it's five till, and the minute I start, I'm fine, it's just you know and then I remember last year was the first year where I did the thing with the everybody's got headphones on and I was like, oh, this is. It is weird because, especially if you're trying to be somewhat entertaining and you can't hear them laughing, it's a weird thing. So I figured it out.

Dave Jackson: 37:53

I spoke with one ear on and one ear off, so I could hear if I'm doing a bunch of plosives, and yet I could hear if they were going to laugh or not. But it was. You know, that's hard, dave.

Jim Collison: 38:02

That is hard when you're speaking to a group and you can't hear them. I've been doing these virtual drop-ins where you have 30 people on the call and I do this 15 minute presentation and I don't use slides and I try to make it funny. You know, hey, it's this guy. They don't know I'm dropping in for 15 minutes. Right, I got to make the greatest impact that I can in 15 minutes, right On Zoom calls. You know, when I go we have local versions of these where there's people in the room and you can hear them laugh and it kind of feeds. It kind of feeds you. You know, your, the jokes are great because you know then they are settled in. Right, if you can get them to laugh in the first three minutes, you know, okay, this is going to work. They're listening, it's settled in. They'll also pay more attention. If they hear laughter in the first few minutes, they'll be like, oh, there's comedy in this. I should probably listen, right, I don't want to miss this. So they'll pay, they'll pay greater attention.

Jim Collison: 38:50

But lately when I'm doing Zoom, I have to watch the screen to get the reactions right. I am, I am, I say a joke and then I'm looking around to see how it's landing with people, to make sure it gives me. I'm getting the feedback that way as well, because it's really I can't imagine being in a room with everybody, have a headphone on and you can't you're. You know you're talking to them, they can hear you, but you can't hear them laugh. You can't hear that feedback from them. Right, I mean, it's super important when you're you have to, I think when you're talking to an audience.

Jim Collison: 39:22

I don't know how these guys do it on a stage where they can't see, like that's a whole nother level. You know where the lights are so bright, that's a whole nother level, because I depend so much on body language and you know eye contact, body language and laughter or some kind of even groaning as a response. We get that from the chat room, right, you and I, we live for the chat room as we're talking, we're feeding off your comments, right, we kind of know what's landing and what's not, kind of based on the comments and we can play off of those. So that's a form of that. I mean that's kind of a form of that feedback as well. I can't go in blind. I wouldn't be if it's a dark room and there's nobody in there that I can see. I don't know if I'm as good.

Dave Jackson: 40:09

The weirdest thing when you're doing the headphone thing, like I remember I was green, like if you wanted to listen to Dave, you turned your headphones to green. So I had a whole bunch of people in front of me that were green and then, like, the next group was, I think, red, and then there was yellow or something. And what was interesting is I got all my green people right in front of me so I'm giving them my attention and then you see, like the random green person I'm like, apparently the people in the yellow section are not holding their attention. They're like well, let's see what this guy on the other stick is doing. And I was like well, that's kind of weird.

Dave Jackson: 40:44

Yeah, jeff C says look, I feel like barfing. Every time when he does his live show on Fridays he goes. I always say why am I doing this to myself? I am fine once I get going, you know, but it's it takes. And that's again.

Dave Jackson: 40:57

I think one of the byproducts of podcasting is you learn to go with the flow. Wait, batteries are dead on the P4. I guess I'm going to plug the Rode you know pod mic USB directly into the. You just learn to go with it sometimes and then you find out, hey, that might've actually been a better, you know, workflow or whatever. Hey, I found my book. There you go, tom. I'm almost up to about. I've almost up to. I think I'm 950 people have clicked on the link that I put here in here. I'll put it in the chat room. It's, tom's book, is so good that when I type hashtag Webster it puts out that book. Here's a great thing. An example of a tagline, right? If I just said, the audience is listening, we kind of know what that's about. But his tagline, right, a little guide to building a big podcast. Well, who doesn't want to do that? And it's. If you haven't read this yet, what are you waiting for? I still say it should have been called your Baby is Ugly, because that's kind of what he's hinting at.

Jim Collison: 42:04

This is a good example, dave, of having that book right, that that you, that people can point to, that it's helpful. Like you, you, you can't just write a book about nothing. It's got to be a good book to start with, right, right. So people have to say but it's one of those things. Then there's some social. You know, there's some social proof. Tom's been mentioned a couple times already. He doesn't hang out here every week. I mean some, but not every week. But you are able to pull his book up and be like, hey, look at this, right.

Jim Collison: 42:30

I mean there's some of that.

Dave Jackson: 42:32

So let's, we kind of talked about this last week. So why do I promote this book a lot? Well, number one it's really good, like the content itself. It makes you think and then you go, oh, I'm going to have to try that when I get done reading this book. Then you throw in the snark factor that is Tom Webster. That's just, I remember talking about using curse words.

Dave Jackson: 42:54

There's one where he's talking about curse words and he's like, honest, this is the last time I'm going to say whatever it was. And then he does it again and like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot I wasn't going to it, say whatever it was. And then he does it again and like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot I wasn't going to. It's hilarious. So because, let me go over to Rich Graham's. We're talking about how do you stand out. We kind of hit that last week, and did I not? Rich Graham sent me a link and I can't find it now. But we're talking about how do you stand out from other shows.

Dave Jackson: 43:25

So, like, I've read other books on growing your podcast, but it in some cases they didn't give me strategies that I can try. It's a lot of theory, right? Oh, you should be better. Hey, thanks. Never would have figured that one out. But there are actual strategies in this book. Then it's entertaining and he does it in a way and this is where anybody who's an expert, when you can give you a strategy that the average Joe goes I think I could do that Like not only am I going to read about it, but I can actually do it. That's another thing. So I cannot find it. I even put a pin in it and either. Whatever I did, I cannot let me search for Graham, but there was a post, unless I don't know if Rich can put it. I don't think you can put links in the chat room. Only only we can. Yeah, unfortunately, I will find it.

Jim Collison: 44:27

I will run over to the school of pieces or whatever if you want to, but it's a matter of you know what makes things stand out.

Dave Jackson: 44:36

Because there's a guy that does the one minute blog and I have found it. Let me throw, throw this on the screen Um, here we go. And he says um, so, everyone has a podcast. Now, who is this? Uh, sean so S H A A N dot beehivecom the one minute blog. Uh, so, everyone has a podcast now. Martha Stewart, barack Obama everyone has a podcast now. Martha Stewart, barack Obama, shaq, snoop Dogg, all those equal podcasters. The CIA has a podcast, bill Gates has a podcast. Your barista, my ex-girlfriend and the homeless guy across the street have podcasts. Everyone has a podcast.

Dave Jackson: 45:17

But is the market too saturated? How do you win at podcasting in 2025? If Obama came to me and said Sean, big fan, you've done 100 million plus downloads. You published 700 episodes Lightweight, sean. Anyway, give me some advice. Here's my podcast advice, Barack.

Dave Jackson: 45:34

Listen, I've got good news and bad news for you, champ. The bad news First. Podcasts have a shelf space problem. Celebrities don't get this. They used to on Instagram, on IG, one user will follow thousands of people. It's infinite shelf space for fandom. But podcasts are so time intensive that the average podcast listener only typically keeps one to three shows in rotation Not if you listen to Tom Webster, I think it's six to seven in their latest Sounds Profitable. Something like that Says this if you listen to Tom Webster, I think it's six to seven in their latest sounds profitable. Something like that Says this means you need to crack someone's top three. Imagine if Instagram only let you follow three accounts. You have to be incredible to be in their top three. It would be super hard to build a loyal following, right? Welcome to podcasting.

Dave Jackson: 46:21

Now the good news there's roughly only three ways to win in podcasting in 2025. So let's see here. Number one incredible banter. All right, if you and your co-host have incredible chemistry, being a fly on the wall while you hang out is fun. You can still win, no matter the competition. I'm not sure I agree. I mean, I know a lot of people tune into Conan to hear him rip apart his staff, but I think that gig is old, but anyway, you then chop up your best banter moments and use that as TikTok Instagram clips that can independently go viral. Okay, examples comedy podcasts. So the Basement Yard Shane Gillis Bad Friends, friday Beers have you heard of any of theseis? Bad friends, friday beers have you heard of any of these shows, jim? I have not. I have not. No, yeah, I mean either.

Jim Collison: 47:08

It doesn't mean anything.

Dave Jackson: 47:09

It doesn't mean you only have so much time.

Dave Jackson: 47:11

Well, here's that he goes. If you're not a comedian, that's okay, you just need to have better banter. Say that three times fast than the average in your category. Um, so, uh, number in the. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, okay, or I, like the other one. Dave Attell had a joke. If you want to find the quickest way to someplace, ask the guy with one leg. He always knows.

Dave Jackson: 47:37

Number two incredible expertise. Guests are huge for podcasts. Getting the right guests so low supply, high demand at the right time, so it's trending is one way to win. Either the hosts themselves need to be such experts that we want to listen or they pull top-level guests. Examples Lex Friedman, tim Ferriss, chris Williamson. Stripe's new podcast. How old is this blog post? Williamson? Stripes new podcast. How old is this blog post? Um, cause, this didn't. Isn't stripe going away? It's merging into teams anyway, apparently, their podcast. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, Stripe, and there we go. Too many between stripe and strike and yeah, slack. Too many things beginning with S? Um bonus. Combine number one and two banter and expert access and you get a Lollapalooza effect. This is why All In got so big so fast. So that's again banter and expert access. Number three you play a different game. This one, I think, is important. This is why TBPN T-P-T-B-P-N.

Jim Collison: 48:50

The something network. I should know this T-P-B what's?

Dave Jackson: 48:52

BP. Yeah, they treat podcasting simply as a way to farm short form clips. It doesn't matter if you watch their three hour show, as long as you saw 30 clips from them in your X feed that week. There's a young kid on Instagram doing this too. He turns his podcast interviews into one-minute Instagram clips that get millions of hits. If you don't have a plan to have one of those three, you're drawing dead in podcasting in 2005. And this is from Uncle Sean, so interesting. Yeah, here's's.

Jim Collison: 49:23

uncle sean wrote this with ai probably but um no, it's a total ai post like you could it's. It couldn't be any clear ai well, I mean, there was I'm sure there was some, some adapting in there going on, but the only thing here three things one minute.

Dave Jackson: 49:42

Give me some stuff, uh that could be, yeah, um chris, it's okay, that's right stone from castaheadnet says how about three of the best clips? How about quality over quantity? Uh, in tom's book he mentions like there is no uh, quantity, it's all quality. It's always quality, it's always quality. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. So yeah, I'm not reading the book. That is the one minute blog post which took me longer than a minute to read.

Jim Collison: 50:13

So, apparently, it's a little bit faster than a minute.

Dave Jackson: 50:16

Yeah.

Jim Collison: 50:17

There's some good, there's some good tips in there, right.

Jim Collison: 50:19

I mean from a from. At the end of the day right, we talked about this last week At the end of the day, your brand has to be strong enough to attract people right. Right, either you're attracting them through comedy they come and laugh. You're attracting them through information they come and learn more. You're attracting them through a relationship. They come and feel like they know you, right, all of those things you know that can be done. And who are you going to be for those people?

Jim Collison: 50:47

By the way, you may be multiple, for you know you may. There may be folks who know you, who. They're there for the relationship, but there's others that come for the information, there's others that come to learn, and so I think all of those things roll up under the the umbrella of helping people. Like, I think, if you're really interested in people and you're really interested in helping them in the stuff that you do makes their life better in some way, um, I think that's that is the key to all of this is how do we help someone do something right? Entertainment is is helping right Entertainment, having them you say what Laugh, cry, groan, think, right those things.

Dave Jackson: 51:35

Educate or entertain. Yeah, and preferably more than one of those Like if you can make me laugh while you make me think, well then you get Tom's book. The audience is listening.

Jim Collison: 51:45

Um so, and if you think your content is good, that's great. But others have to think that, right, I mean, it's you convincing others that your content is worth listening to for any of those, for any of those reasons, and so you've just got to. You know, if you're, if it's great, if you think you're interesting, but, like the proof in the pudding is, do other people think you're interesting? And, to be honest, for some people it can make maybe just a handful of people find you interesting, you know, and that's okay.

Dave Jackson: 52:17

And if one of them is mom?

Jim Collison: 52:20

well, even mom should be a proud of what you do, right? I mean some of those kinds of things. So it is again, I think it's one of those kinds of things, and I also think it's interesting in the space sometimes too, that you, you know, we always talk about these overnight successes. It took 10 years to be an overnight success. Sometimes you just got to put it in, you just got to put the time in, and then you have moments, and how you handle those moments, those breakout moments, you know. Look at the Hawk Tua girl. Right, she had a moment right now. Did she take advantage of it? Absolutely, she took advantage of it. She was on every major network for what a month. She did her own podcast, some of those kinds of things. Is that going to last? Well, if she has more than just the hoctua thing?

Dave Jackson: 53:07

maybe, yeah, now that the, now that the crypto scandal has kind of died away, she is now trying to come back with her podcast. But but speaking of kind of hoctua girls, yeah, um, do you remember here's, here's the thing that I've been trying to pay attention to, because I this is the second time I've told somebody about this, and so there's difference between stuff like I don't know, talking about the Cleveland Browns, like OK, who cares? But when you say like why did this catch my attention? So do you remember the girl? She was way obnoxious on Dr Phil and she was all about catch me outside and everything was like no, she was basically do you remember when Cartman on South Park used to go, screw you guys, I'm going home, right, he was just that was kind of her. She was like I do what I want, screw you guys, I do what I want. That was basically her. So she was known as the catch me outside because she was saying catch me outside, like, if you don't like it, catch me outside. But because she was like you know, yo, yo, yo, she was like cash me outside. Well, the cash me outside girl got an OnlyFans when she turned 18 and scored a million dollars in six hours, right, so that's the first one. You're like, wait, what Now? And I don't know who this is, lil Tay.

Dave Jackson: 54:31

Lil Tay is this little. She used to be Lil Tay. She was like nine. She had a big, giant gold chain and she'd be out like yo yo, I got more money than you and you're poor and I'm great. You know that kind of rap stuff.

Dave Jackson: 54:49

And Lil Tay has grown up and she did a whole thing where she's, you know, noticing it to all the major influence. She even like tagged Joe Rogan on it, like hey, should I start an OnlyFans? I turn 18 and you know 48 hours. So this whole big thing. She turns 18, opens up her OnlyFans account and the person that pointed this out to me was like that means she had to take the pictures before, which means technically she was underage when the pictures were taken. But anyway, nonetheless, million dollars in three hours. And my whole thing is I go back to Chris Rock's routine about got to keep my baby off the pole and I'm like how do you keep your baby off the pole when they're making a million dollars in three hours? I was like that's cray cray, so that kind of stuff. I was like okay, so why am I sharing that? Well, a, it's almost naughty because we said OnlyFans, so there's that naughty factor. It's on the edge and then, holy cow, it's on the edge. It's on the edge and then, holy cow, a million dollars in three hours. That's crazy.

Dave Jackson: 55:46

And so it's not something you hear all the time. It's I don't know what. You would call it outrageous in a way. So to me there are things that you go ooh, that's a weird fact. I might bring this up at a next birthday party. Or you know, just a is is this stuff that you bring up Like hey, did you hear that? You know so-and-so is going to do the thing and the, and so sometimes I think the stuff we talk about on a podcast is helpful, it's good, it's educational and it was kind of funny. But it is something the next time I see my friend go oh, I heard this on a podcast.

Dave Jackson: 56:23

Now, when I was married, that phrase came out of my mouth on a really regular basis. It would be how was your day? Oh, it was this and this and that, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I heard this thing on a podcast, so-and-so did such and such.

Dave Jackson: 56:43

So I think that's something I'm trying to pay attention, like when do we share stuff? And part of it I've said this before is when it makes either you feel something by Ooh, somebody is going to love this, it's like giving somebody the perfect Christmas present, or um, how it's going to make them feel or, or such and such. But I'm trying to pay attention to why do we share stuff and when is it? What's the difference between? This is good content and this is shareable content? Because that's kind of what we're always talking about, like how do I grow my audience? Well, reports say that 70% of podcasts are discovered via word of mouth, per Jacobs Media. So, you know, there you go, and Chris is going to start his own OnlyFans. Now, that's it. I might do one for feet, you know, hey, hey, here's my feet pay me money and I'll let you look at my feet.

Dave Jackson: 57:28

Doesn't work that way, unfortunately. I want to do that. I'm like you know what, dave?

Jim Collison: 57:31

no one's interested in seeing your feet, dave somebody, is you never?

Dave Jackson: 57:34

only one way to find out that's true.

Jim Collison: 57:37

That's true, you could try. You could try. It'd be interesting to see how it goes. You never know, it could go viral or create a virus.

Dave Jackson: 57:44

One of the two you never know.

Jim Collison: 57:47

You never know what's going to go on you just don't know.

Dave Jackson: 57:51

Can you think of the last thing you shared or told somebody or was like oh, you should watch this, it's good.

Jim Collison: 57:57

About a podcast or anything you know. So I have a buddy that I work out with five or six days a week Good, for you my friend.

Jim Collison: 58:10

Yeah, that's a time we download, right. We get together early in the morning, walk or whatever, climb stairs, whatever we're doing, and oftentimes we share. We use that time to share like, hey, you know, how'd you date what was yesterday like, and the little bit, little tidbits of things that we've learned from you know, from from whatever is a, it's good opportunity for us to share together. Yeah, it's, it's. I think that's helpful is to have some kind of I I. You know I've also also said I, I do a little ai download every afternoon, uh, chat with the ai assistant and download and talk about some, some of the things that happen during the day. I find that to be a little bit helpful too.

Dave Jackson: 58:52

So no, I'm trying to think I couldn't. I couldn't give you one example, sorry there are reports now that you can turn and maybe you can explain. There's a way you can tell chat gbt like you tell it something about like I just want to talk to you kind of thing. People are using it for like as a mental health kind of thing, because you know nobody's going to answer the phone if I call them, so I'll just talk to my phone and you can dial up or dial down the conversation too.

Jim Collison: 59:20

On some of them, like hey, be more encouraging or be more critical. You know there's a there's a thing going on about ai right now where it's a little too agreeable with you in some cases, like jim you're absolutely right.

Dave Jackson: 59:34

That's a really good point, jim yeah, great idea.

Jim Collison: 59:36

And you're like, uh, you know you can, you can tell it to be more critical in your prompt or when you're talking to it, say Say, hey, I'd like your attitude to be a little more skeptical.

Dave Jackson: 59:47

Can you pretend to be my wife?

Jim Collison: 59:50

God, you beat me to it. There we go. All right, darn it. I was setting that up and then you just beat me, sorry, sorry.

Dave Jackson: 1:00:02

Well, you know who. We never complain about, that's right. Where is the thing? Our awesome supporters. You can be an awesome supporter by going over to askthepodcastcoachcom slash support or awesome. What's wrong with my brain today? So, yes, askthepodcastcoachcom, slash awesome. So, yes, askthepodcastcoachcom, slash awesome. And the show, we should remind you, is brought to you by the School of Podcasting, where you can get courses, coaching and community. Use the coupon code coach and join, worry free, with a 30 day money back guarantee.

Dave Jackson: 1:00:35

If you go to askthepodcastcoachcom, well, that's on Podpage and you can try Podpage by going to trypodpagecom. And if you want to check out, go, look for podpage HQ. I'll put a link in the show notes. I just uploaded a video. What is podpage? So if you ever wondered, now it's 15 minutes, there's chapters in it. But if you're like, wait, what does it do? Like it's, it's basically I made that for people that sign up for a demo and then don't show up, so I can send them this and like, hey, I don't know what happened, but here's what I do in a demo. So, and if you need more, jim Collison and hey, who doesn't then go over to the average guytv and check out home gadget geeks and I am still not using. I put this slide in here cause I was going to start using it and have uh, it's one of those things. This is a September thing now, but vid IQ if you go to support this showcom, slash vid IQ. I hear good things about it, but I also know there are some things that people are using and going hey, this is supposed to make me go viral and it's not. So. That's always a fun thing, but it's this time that we go to our good friend, the wheel.

Dave Jackson: 1:01:43

Oh, names, yes, who will it be? Will it be John Muntz? Will it be Ralph from Financially Confident Christian? Will it be Craig from AI Goes to College Speaking of speaking gigs? Craig just got asked to do a live podcast at an event about AI and education, and that whole nine yards. So who will it be? Max Trescott? Or the ladies over at Flame Alive? We spin the wheel and survey says it is, I'm thinking, ralph, if it keeps going.

Dave Jackson: 1:02:12

If it keeps going, it is the one and only financially confident Christian hosted by Ralph Estep Jr. If you want to get your finances in order and get a little pinch of Bible verses thrown in there to make you feel good and base your decisions on the good book. Check it out over. You can find all the Ralph shows. Really, if you just go to AskRalphcom, he's got a bunch of other shows besides Financially Confident Christian.

Dave Jackson: 1:02:37

But, ralph, thank you for being an awesome supporter and as we continue on, there we go If you found. Well, first of all, thanks to all of our awesome supporters. We do appreciate them all People like Ed over at Sonic Cupcake and Glenn at Horse Radio Network and the Indie Drop-In Network. They're all there. And if this show saved you time or money maybe saved you a headache, or we kept you educated, or maybe we just entertained you talking about OnlyFans and feet Well then you can be an awesome supporter by going over to askthepodcastcoachcom slash awesome. And you don't have to do the $20 value If you don't want to be on the wheel oh, names, you can just support in a way to say hey, thanks.

Dave Jackson: 1:03:26

And Creasy says, hey, I love pod page. Yeah, it's got some we added. Now I don't use these on this show, but you can. You can add categories. That's always been in there and now you can add category buttons to your front page. So if somebody goes and like, oh, this one's about finance and this one's about this and this one's about that. You can now add categories to your front page, so that's just a little baby update that has come along.

Dave Jackson: 1:03:54

I saw this particular question in the Buzzsprout. They have a Reddit group now and I'm going to be on Buzzcast I think it's next week Looking forward to that with Jordan and all the people, kevin and the guy's name that I always want to say something else, but it's not Alvin, it's Albin. There we go, but they say how did you get your first 100 downloads? We all start somewhere and hitting the first 100 downloads is huge. Let's hear your most creative, desperate or shocking tactics that go to that milestone. Was it from constantly bugging family, please, please, listen to my podcast. Sneaking your podcast into your friend's phones? Yep, printing flyers, sticking QR code stickers on bus stops that's not a bad idea or doing something totally different. This is a judgment-free zone, so tell us what worked for your podcast. So most of mine are in that category.

Dave Jackson: 1:04:58

Are really old, like I don't know if they work. My first show was for musicians and I bought a printer and you could buy printable CDs. Old, like I don't know if they work, like my first show was for musicians and I had I bought a printer and you could buy printable CDs so you could print on the actual top instead of making a label and then sticking it on there and it had my logo and it said free music marketing tips, and I had like a two minute promo. That was it. It was one track and at the end it was like for more information, go to musician school or marketing musiciancom. And so there was that I used to go to bookstores and whatever age I was so let's say at the time I was probably 44, I would go into a bookstore.

Dave Jackson: 1:05:38

This was for my weight loss show. I would go to the weight loss section and I would put a business card on page 44. And the reason I did that is on occasion I would be traveling around to speak and I'd go into a bookstore and I would go to that page and go oh, I've already hit this, I've already hit this bookstore, I need to go find another one. So there's that I used to. Let me think of what else I used to do. I'm thinking for cause I I kind of do a show, I keep starting, and then there's just I don't have enough time for another podcast.

Dave Jackson: 1:06:13

But I saw where I want to say sticker mule, you can get, you know, those like yard signs that you put in, like you'll see somebody like, oh, this house is getting windows from Jim's House of Windows or whatever. You can get those fairly cheap. And I thought you know what I should do is like put Akron Podcast big old QR code and stick them at those. We all have those intersections where the red light seems to go on for hours and I'm like you know somebody eventually is going to pick it up and go. You're not allowed to put these here, but if I get, you know a few people and there's going to be enough people that go wait, I've never heard of this and point their phone at it. Or go downtown where they have thousands of people every Friday and stick a yard sign there that says Akron podcast, point your phone at this or something like that. That would be kind of a gorilla thing, jim. Have you ever done any kind of gorilla marketing for any?

Jim Collison: 1:07:09

of your stuff. Oh, my advice would be get a job. I mean, I know that sounds sarcastic, but I think podcasting about a product is the easiest, best way selling something, having merch and I'm not talking about T-shirts and those kinds of things, I'm actually talking about product helping people with products, support something, do something, resell something. I think it's a lot easier to have a podcast with purpose if you're selling something, right, dave, you've got a book and you're. You have the school of podcast and you're selling those things. There's a good. There's a good purpose and reason.

Jim Collison: 1:07:48

At gallup, I podcast around clifton strengths. It's a great thing to have some purpose around. It creates endless amounts of content that people find interesting. Yeah, puts me in a little bit of a niche. Uh, you know, I think about my, my buddy, dave Groffel, over at Two Guys. You know they're a cigar shop, right, they talk about it. It gives them purpose. There's, you know there's things around it. I think that's a great. Can you have a podcast without that? Yeah, a lot of successful podcasts. So, around products, right, and so I get a job.

Dave Jackson: 1:08:25

Another one I did was I'd go to the Apple store and bring up Apple podcasts on every single laptop that they had in there and bring it up to the school of podcasting. I would also subscribe to it. I don't know, I can never figure it out. Is that going to count as one subscriber, because they're all in the same IP, or is it going to count each laptop? Uh, but that way, you know, they always had the some sort of screen saver or something, so that when somebody moved the mouse, school of podcasting was the first thing they saw. And I'm sure the people at apple were like oh, here comes that guy again. Keep him away from the laptops. Um, that was another gorilla thing I used to do listen.

Jim Collison: 1:08:59

I found, dave, that those tactics they're're fine, they're fun. Go do them.

Dave Jackson: 1:09:03

They're fun, that's right. It's a fun activity, yeah.

Jim Collison: 1:09:06

Make sure you turn it into a fun activity, right, but it doesn't really get the listeners that I wanted. Right For Home Catch Geeks I was trying to create. I am creating a nice, helpful community of individuals who like to talk about technology, don't take themselves too seriously and want to help each other do that. That's the kind of community we want. You know, we've landed in a really nice spot of a couple hundred, three, four, five hundred maybe folks that want to do that. I want to do that and I'm not interested in blowing that thing out to the. You know you get your. You know you get your um, your uh, discord group any bigger than a couple hundred. And then it starts. Then you just got to start managing attitudes, right, and I'm just not, I'm not interested in, you know, for for my group, this is what I want again, right, so I'm not I, so I kind of keep it.

Jim Collison: 1:10:02

I kind of find I feel sorry for the pat flynn's of the world, of the john lee dumas's, who have to deal with people who don't matter to him and they have to hear their opinions like I. I feel bad because that shouldn't be a thing. Like you know, people say things they shouldn't ever say in contexts where they don't have any idea what's going on behind the scenes or what's actually happening, and then they feel like they're right and you're like no one should have to deal with those kinds of attitudes all the time. I never wanted that. I never wanted that like I, you know, it's just like no, not interested.

Jim Collison: 1:10:40

I want people to be helpful and I want them to be nice and and I want them to, you know, I want them to be kind to each other as well, not just me, but I want them to be kind to each other. We've got a great group of individuals here that are kind of that way as well. So I was never I just was never interested in the general marketing, like, hey, I'm begging people to come and listen, can you just listen for a second? No, I wanted individuals who are like man, I get a lot of value out of this. This means something to me because of this relationship. Then they tell somebody else that's what I want, because the quality matters more than the quantity to me.

Dave Jackson: 1:11:16

Yep, mark says. Back when we used to pay bills with checks, I would include a card in every bill. I also leave them with tips. Yep, when we eat out has to be a good tip though. Yep, I've done that. I've left a business card mixed in with the sugar packets. I've done that.

Dave Jackson: 1:11:33

Stephanie says what about bookmarks at the Akron Public Library? Yeah, that would work. Until they figure it out and kick out, let's see Bulletin boards at the library and by the bank. Yep, anything like that. Again, the thing I love about that kind of stuff is, yeah, pin your QR code to a company bill or a community billboard. The beauty of that is a business card is maybe three cents, something like that, you know, and maybe five if you actually bring your own pin, you know, and it takes five seconds. Now, granted, it may or may not. It's not going to give you 10,000 downloads, but it's. It answers the question have you done everything you can to grow your show? Like, yes, I even put up, you know, especially if it's a local show, you know that's? Mark says. I once booked six clients from a card posted on one of those boards, so you never know.

Jim Collison: 1:12:33

Um, another question we had. That came up. Stephanie had one in chat, by the way. If you didn't, if you missed it, yeah, oh yeah, if you go, go back just a few minutes, she's got a. She had a question.

Dave Jackson: 1:12:41

If you see it, go ahead.

Jim Collison: 1:12:43

Let me go back here. Yeah, here we go. Did you find it? Yeah?

Dave Jackson: 1:12:48

Still haven't received any replies to my summer survey. Any ideas on how I can give it what? How? Any ideas on how to give it another boost? Should I pivot and just call it a general survey instead? Well, some are still going, but you got to promote it every episode. I know when I was promoting mine I had because I use Captivate I had a little like 10 second ones. Hey, if you get a chance, go to you know, schoolofpodcastingcom. Slash survey25. And then in the middle I had a thing hey, just, this is Dave again just reminding you. Really you're helping me make the show better and I'm glad you brought this up.

Dave Jackson: 1:13:28

I got a story about this and then you know, even at the end then like hey, the episode's over, you're probably looking for something to do. I got an idea Go to school of podcasting dot com, slash survey 25 and fill out the survey. It only takes a minute and a half. So, yeah, you just got to keep, cause it's it's a bummer. I sent out an email this week. So I've been working with a coach and it was funny because there were lots of things that he's like. So tell me about your welcome sequence, to which I would go. What's a welcome sequence and he's like okay, so I now have a welcome sequence and he's like's like well, how did your last campaign perform? And I'm like what do you mean? And I'm like I always have a thing at the end. It's like, hey, if you need help, here's the school of podcasting. He's like, but you never like do a campaign where you, you know you explain the, you know the world is going to end if you don't start a podcast and then it's really, really going to end. And then you know you agitate and that whole marketing stuff. I go, yeah, I've never done that. He goes, so you don't sell with your newsletter. And I go, well, no, I put the little thing at the bottom that says if you need help, here's the school. He's like, yeah, that's not no. So I did one of those and I had like six back, something I haven't done in a while, which is where I teach people live Podcasting in six weeks is was the name of it and I had some people sign up but not a ton and I was like, okay, all right. So he said, all right, send out a survey and ask them why they didn't buy. And I was like, cause it sounded like why didn't you buy? He's like no, no, he goes, he goes. No, he goes, obviously he goes. Maybe they don't want what you're selling. And I was like okay. So I'm like hey, you know. Thanks so much.

Dave Jackson: 1:15:18

If you noticed, I sent out a campaign in the last couple emails and some of you bought thank you very much, and some of you did not like. If you got, like, I have four questions If you could help me you're going to help me shape the content of this newsletter and the podcast. Let me know what you need and I had. So I think that went out to a little over a thousand people, like maybe 1100. And I think the last time I checked I had 18 replies. So I'm not sure what the percentage is of that, but it's not great. But I got 18 replies and the thing I found out was a lot of people are not like I assume everybody on my email list is a beginner and some of them are beginners, but they, because they're launched, they think they don't need me, and I'm like, oh, I need to start promoting the fact that I can help you grow your show and we can brainstorm some things and you know I can audit your show.

Dave Jackson: 1:16:13

Like you know, somebody this week had a thing on their website and they had the kind of what I call a show player where you get it. You get one page and go here, go to my podcast, and you've got six players in a little box, six episodes, and I go yeah, that has zero, like zero, almost negative SEO. I go have every episode, have its own episode or its own, you know, blog post, et cetera, et cetera, things like that. And so it was just interesting because I found out, oh, my audience didn't buy it. Because I suck, cause that's, of course, the first thing you jump to it's I'm selling things they don't want. Like it's literally like, why isn't my audience growing? Oh, because what you talk about on the show, the people you have attracted, either you're attracting the wrong audience. So you know, hey, I'm attracting people who've already launched. They've been doing it three years and now they want to monetize. And I'm going hey, I can help you launch your show. And so it's never a bad idea to get feedback.

Dave Jackson: 1:17:11

Because I was like, oh, it's one of the things Justin Moore said in the episode that's coming out Monday and he's quoting, I believe, nelson Mandela. He says you either win, or you learn, like, that's your two options. You either sell some stuff or you learn why you didn't buy, so that you can then turn around and change things and reword it so that people will buy it. So it was just one of those things we kind of get worried about, like, if I ask for feedback on something that wasn't exactly positive, like, oh, they're just going to dump on me and I'm like, or you could learn why it didn't work, you know. So that works with kind of everything. You know, if you're trying to get something done and you're like, oh, why didn't it work? Oh, I forgot to flip the phalange on, and you know, or whatever it is, and you're like, oh, then you go back and you flip the phalange on and it works, you know. Great, I didn't know that.

Dave Jackson: 1:18:14

So don't be afraid to ask your audience and sometimes you know, we've talked about this Sometimes they give you feedback and you go oh, you're not my target audience. And in this case I have an audience. I just I'm giving them stuff. They go yeah, I don't need that, it's like. It's like when the volley app came out and they had a free version and then they had a paid version and they're like, oh, our paid version is going to be amazing. And they go okay, you know, you guys have been using this for months, here's the new features that you can pay for. And we went don't need it, don't need it, don't need it, don't need it, maybe Nah. And so they went out of business. And now they've come back and they changed their. They just started paying for their free stuff and we're all just like take my money.

Dave Jackson: 1:18:57

But sometimes you know it's not that it's bad content, it's not that it's the delivery, it's that the people you have attracted are not who you're looking for. And at that point the choice is oh, I thought I was attracting people A instead of attracted people B. Do I either A change my marketing to go find where people A are and go hey, there's a podcast over here for you. Or do you change your information to match the people you actually attracted? So I just thought it was interesting. I haven't looked at my survey.

Dave Jackson: 1:19:37

I was going to do an episode on this, which I kind of just did, but it dawns on me, though, um, but it dawns on which.

Dave Jackson: 1:19:47

It dawns on me, though, that if I were to talk about the results, who cares like that So-and-so wants this longer and like the actual details of it.

Dave Jackson: 1:19:53

But the bottom line is I'm just a huge fan of surveys and it's not a, it's not the end of the world to get feedback Cause then you know, one of the things that that gave me test anxiety when I was in college is I started doing my homework and I was actually trying to get good grades and so I would get a little anxious to where my brain would kind of freak out, because it was one thing to get mediocre grades because I wasn't really trying, I was just kind of sailing through college. But now I was trying, and what would happen if I actually try to get good grades and then didn't? Well then I'm a big dummy. Well, it turns out, if you did the homework and read the book, you actually ended up on the Dean's list, you know. But it's, it's weird sometimes like, oh, if I try, some people might you know I might not like what I'm doing or whatever Like no no, it's feedback.

Dave Jackson: 1:20:45

Like I said, you either win or you learn Another fun. Do you have anything to add to that before I move on, jim?

Jim Collison: 1:20:53

No, I think that's good.

Dave Jackson: 1:20:55

I think we're in the space there.

Dave Jackson: 1:20:56

From a survey guy. I'm like no, never do a survey. Yeah Well, here's one that says, yeah Well, here's one that says how important are the aesthetics to you when it comes to creating a full listener experience Beyond great audio? How much do things like podcast art, video visuals, equipment design and consistent brand style factor into your show? I'm exploring this in my next podcast series and would love to hear your thoughts. Drop me a comment or DM me if you'd like to, if you've got a strong take.

Dave Jackson: 1:21:32

And I used to think artwork, especially episodic artwork, and it kind of, as always, it's a podcast question, so it depends. But I used to think it's nice if you got the time. And now that I work at Podpage and I see people where they have, they're showing their artwork for every episode on the page and it's the exact same thing. That it's not a horrible look, but it looks much better if it's different. It just especially if it ties in with the theme of the or the color scheme of the. You know your artwork or whatever it is. Let me see if I can find. Yeah, let me do this.

Dave Jackson: 1:22:17

This was PodPage's website of the week and it was simply because and this is why I said, it's simple, there's nothing crazy on this site. But here's their artwork. It's got this light blue, it's got a little bit of gray, and so we tied in, or they tied in, this kind of dark greenish color and it just everything here ties into this. So there's nothing where all of a sudden everything's bright yellow. It's super simple. They've got professional photos for their author pictures and such. It's not. Somebody did this on a phone and then they've got an about section and then they got their email.

Dave Jackson: 1:22:56

But to me, when I just came to this, I was like oh wow, this is a simple, like nothing, like they barely tweaked the theme, but just because there was a solid color scheme, I was like that looks just I don't know what the I want to say smooth, but it just looks planned, maybe, or it wasn't random, or but I was like I like the look of that. And so for me, when somebody asked dude, does it matter what stuff looks like on video? Of course your, your thumbnails are all that in a bag of chips. That's half your, half, your well, I don't know about half, but a big chunk of your views and such can be tied back to the artwork. So you have to be, you have to put in some time, and that's the one that I really suck at. I'm always going into Canva and just doing what's good enough, et cetera, et cetera, but uh, you know um.

Jim Collison: 1:23:54

Dave, I think. I think everything in your brand matters, right? How you determine to be, how people perceive you is important. Now, how you go about it is up to you, right? And what you put out there and how it's perceived is up to your audience. And you've got to. You know you can't underestimate the power of personal brand. That's what people are attracted to, that's what people are coming for. Your personal brand, right?

Jim Collison: 1:24:27

You're all listening here live. For those of you listening live, you're here because you like our brand and many of you come out every single week and you hang out for the banter or the comedy or the train wreck or whatever the value that you're coming for. Certainly, many of you have already heard everything we have to say. So we've been doing this a long time. There's nothing new under the sun. We said it all. Maybe there's a every once in a while there's a new tweak, but you're here for our brand of community. That's what we built here. Is that that community brand? You come out on Saturday mornings because you love it, right? You love to be here. Some of you listen to this as a podcast. You won't join us on Saturdays, I don't know why.

Jim Collison: 1:25:10

I'm a little offended but you won't Not really, you come out, you listen to us as a podcast. You do it on a weekly basis. We get some pretty good numbers that way, numbers that we're happy with, but something about the brand has attracted you to that right. So, as you're thinking about your podcast, what's the brand that you have? Why are people coming to listen to you? What is the brand that you're doing? For some, you know, I think of Home Gadget Geeks if I came up with individual album art for each post, would that change anything? Yeah, it might. It actually might. I might attract some folks who like to see that. I've always had a hypothesis that I speak mostly to tech guys who don't care, so I don't spend a lot of time on individual album art.

Jim Collison: 1:26:01

It's just not something I do, but the brand part of it's important, right, the brand piece. I want people to see the colors. You know I've got the Home Gadget Geeks logo, I guess, up over here. I want folks to see that color and go, yeah, up here, there, it is that way.

Dave Jackson: 1:26:17

There we go.

Jim Collison: 1:26:18

And say oh yeah, I'm at Home Gadget Geeks. I know I'm here. This is a recognizable symbol, right, I put that brand everywhere because when people see it, I want them to say oh yeah, we're at-home gadget geeks. So that it's. It's. Everything you do is your brand, yeah.

Dave Jackson: 1:26:37

So Chris says uh, your your message first, clear audio second and everything else later. Yeah, I kind of get that. It's kind of what Jim said, though I've mentioned this a few times. When I was at the event in Chicago, greg from RSScom said you have to figure out what you want to be known for, because, yes, you're a podcast, but you're a brand, and your brand is when people know what you're known for. So you know, I remember once I was at a Christmas party with my wife and the guy came up and said hey, you're the podcast guy, so that's my brand, I'm the podcast guy. I'm like okay, I'll take that. The other thing I'm confused on is is Coach Dave leaving us? He goes. I guess I need to find a new show to watch on Saturday mornings.

Dave Jackson: 1:27:25

I think he's joking. I hope not, don't leave Coach.

Jim Collison: 1:27:29

Dave, we like having you out here on Saturdays.

Dave Jackson: 1:27:32

Yeah, he says yes, literally dialed in to get my mind off of choking to death. Well, don't choke to death. I've almost done that. That's no fun. He says, jim and Dave, you complete me. Well done that. That's no fun. He says, jim and Dave, you complete me. Well, there you go. Did we have you at hello? We had you at, you know, as the podcast coach, which was, you know, an hour and a half ago. So Chris says great points on brand from Jim. Too many times people think brand means fonts, colors and logos. It's so much more than that. Yeah, absolutely those are the things. Like I know Daniel J Lewis is working on some new thing and whatever it is, I'm like I'll go check it out, because he typically doesn't make junk. You know what I mean. I like his. Oh wow, my brain is just not here today. He's going to kill me. It's the thing. Pod influence Is that. It Is that right, pod. Nope, he made up a word, it's so. I'm not moving on until I remember.

Jim Collison: 1:28:35

Oh boy, we could be here a while.

Dave Jackson: 1:28:37

That's right. Does that help? I'm going to the Audacity to podcast, hoping that he mentions it on his show. Let's see Gear and tools. Nope, not there. It's pod. He made a word with pod in it, but that's about half of the podcast industry. Yeah, for the record, Daniel, there's no mention of your show or your product under gears and tools. He should have an option there for software. It's pod. Well, here, if I type in pod Podgagement.

Jim Collison: 1:29:13

Podgagement there we go, I knew that I'd drawn a blank.

Dave Jackson: 1:29:17

So, speaking, getting some podgagement, jim, what are you podgaging with your audience this week on Home Gadget Geeks?

Jim Collison: 1:29:26

Nice segue.

Dave Jackson: 1:29:27

I like that Good work.

Jim Collison: 1:29:28

Aaron Aaron Lawrence. Uh, tech gadgets international uh joins me and we spend a little time. Uh, you're talking about the some of the reviews she's been doing. I didn't realize. Ninja, you know the Ninja coffee makers, and so they make an ice cream maker now, where you can get your own soft serve, yeah, so that we cover that plus a whole bunch of other gadgets.

Jim Collison: 1:29:51

It's a great episode. You're going to want to see it today. She's. She is working, uh, to get her 100,000 subscriber on YouTube, so all her links are on my site. If you want to go out there, check it out If you like it. She's a good one to follow for reviews. You can check it out today. Homegadgetgeekscom.

Dave Jackson: 1:30:08

There you go, on the show on Monday for the School of Podcasting, I'm interviewing Justin Moore, author of the book Sponsor Magnet. If your goal is to get sponsors, like I know, I have a book on monetization. This is a deep dive, which makes me sound like I'm AI, but it's a, it is. It's a a what would it would? It's a thorough looking at, uh, the topic of sponsorship and he talks about how you don't get sponsors. You go out and find partners and, uh, I did something that I don't recommend, and that is I walked him through his greatest hits.

Dave Jackson: 1:30:43

I was like, you know, I know I should do a different interview, but my audience probably hasn't heard, maybe, his greatest hits. So I walked him through a lot of the questions. I asked some people like what would you ask him? And it was, you know, kind of the same old questions how big does my audience have to be and what price should I use? And I was like, okay, he's answered those before, but I'm like, so I don't expect Justin to share this, but I do think it's a really good interview. So if that's something you're looking at and we will be here next week, let me double check. Yes, that is the 16th, because the week after that I will be at Podcast Movement, and thanks for sticking around everybody. We'll see you next week with another episode of Ask the Podcast Coach.