Today Jim and Dave share how they are using Supercast for different projects and that seems to be a simple, yet powerful alternative to Patreon. SPONSOR: Get a branding audio at 00:49 Sponsor: 02:37 Mugshot: 03:07 Patreon Alternative 08:56...
Today Jim and Dave share how they are using Supercast for different projects and that seems to be a simple, yet powerful alternative to Patreon.
SPONSOR: Get a branding audio at podcastbranding.co
00:49 Sponsor: PodcastBranding.co
02:37 Mugshot: Dogpodcastnetwork.com
03:07 Supercast Patreon Alternative
08:56 Multiple Options?
12:42 Realistic Expectations
21:44 Solo Podcasts
24:09 Thank You Patrons
26:58 Great Reviews On My Book
27:32 Idea for Podcasts
28:21 Jim's Thinking about this camera
29:38 Dave's New Camera
33:24 Different Attitudes Apparent in Clubhouse
35:05 Chris From Amateur Traveler
37:17 Chris' Experience with Patreon
42:50 Podcasters are one extreme or the other
46:33 Omaha Recording Studio webberized.com
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Dave: [00:00:00] As the podcast coach for March six, 2020, let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music that means, Hey, it's Saturday. It's time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast. Questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting.com and joining me. Right over there. Is the one and only Jim Cullison from the average guy.tv, Jim, how's it
Jim: [00:00:29] going, buddy? Greetings. Dave, happy Saturday morning to you. We have a little bit of spring fever here in Omaha, Nebraska. This morning, antibiotics, you guys, but whether it's turning, this is fake by the way, for everyone in the United States, not real spring, winter is
Dave: [00:00:42] still, it's still going to come back and smack you in the head.
Yeah, that's for me. In Ohio, we always think spring is here. And then there's always one thing where you get smacked in the head and, it's just but Jim, are you thirsty this morning? I'm super thirsty. It is about that time. And of course that coffee pours brought to you by the one and only Mark firstname.lastname@example.org.
And from weeks we've been telling you about how great Mark is the fact that he's a podcaster and he's this awesome graphic artists. And he'll make a PDF for you who make artwork. He'll make a logo. He'll make a whole full-blown website for you, but no there's but wait, there's more. What if you go, I don't know.
This whole branding thing. It's new to me. What does it really mean? I'm not really much of a marketing person. That's right. Mark. Now offers an audit. If you want Mark to come in, look over your website, look over your artwork. Everything that makes up your brand. I want to say it was something like a 40 point checklist of things that could be wrong.
But I remember I, my notes are somewhere on my desk here. But the beautiful thing is here is Mark, who has years of experience in marketing, in branding. And he can go over all of your stuff again to make sure. And then it might be, Hey, you know what? This you've got too many fonts going on here.
Or maybe your color palette is a little wacky or things like that. And you don't know because that's not your zone of genius, as they say, go over and check out Mark at podcast branding
to all our friends that have joined via clubhouse. If you want to raise your hand the way this works. We will bring you on stage one at a time. If you raise your hand, of course, if you're watching live on YouTube, ask the podcast, coach.com/join. And Jim, that is a mighty fine mug that you are sipping.
Chris: [00:02:46] Is it a nice, yeah. The guys over at the James over dog podcast, network diet dog. Why am I struggling to say that this morning? Dog podcast, network.com. And if you're a, if you're a dog enthusiast, a dog Walker, we joke you could even have a cat. If you want to walk it dog edition, they're their flagship podcasts.
They're looking for folks to hire over there as well as I think they're giving some stuff away. So yeah, if you haven't checked it out yet we're just a couple of weeks away from maybe a new mug, but dog podcast network.
Dave: [00:03:16] Yeah. That's right. Look what came to my post office box. I like it. I shopped James.
I found this this this week, and that is when you have a post office box that is handled by ups. You can have it set up to where they will email you when something shows up. If you have a post office box fueled by the lovely United States postal service, they don't. And so it just happened. I was like, man, it's weird.
I don't get a lot of stuff at my PO box. But I, every two months something will show up. And so I went over there and there was the mug from James. And I'm, I need, if you're from Florida and you sent me a bottle of something, I need to know what it is. Cause I'm not drinking it until I it's either olive oil or homemade wine, but there was no note, just somebody's last name and their address.
They're from Florida. And I was like this is lovely. I don't know. Am I supposed to pour this in my, is this, I don't know, but it was very, but they said it way back in January. It's been sitting there for two who wants a little sketchy, Dave? I don't know. That's it I'm like I'm generally do not eat food from people that I.
Don't know. So that was
Chris: [00:04:25] the the postal service us postal service has the ability you can sign up through their app in, every piece of mail that goes through gets scanned. And my wife just showed this to me yesterday. You can, on a daily basis, you can check and see what's coming from them.
If you're waiting for a letter or whatever, you can log in and see on there where that's coming from and what's going to be delivered that day. I had no idea it was that high tech. Same thing, their sign up on their app. I think you have to put your address in a verified or something like that.
And then you can check every day and see what kind of pictures you're getting or what kind of mail you're getting
Dave: [00:04:57] there. And the one thing I did want to bring up here at the top is I see this question a lot. I always go out in the morning and look for questions. And again, if you're on clubhouse and want to raise your hand, if you have a question, we'll bring up on stage.
If you're watching on YouTube, just go to ask the podcast, coach.com/live. If you want to ask your question via chat. Or if you want to actually jump into the show, just go to ask the podcast, coach.com/join. And people always say, how do I get to be a guest on other podcasts? And so I just wrote these out.
Number one, all good podcasting starts with this, know who your target audience is. Find shows that target, that target audience would listen to. Please listen to the show and see if they actually have guests. I know Jim you've had people send you guests requests on shows that you don't have guests on contact the host and ask if they actually are taking guests pitches.
And then if they say yes, and here's the key, don't tell them how great you are. Tell them how much you're going to benefit their audience, because I don't really care that you invented sliced bread and blah, blah, blah. I want to know what you do with that. And then what I've been asking people to do is if somebody actually fits, if they've done that I will say, can you send me a link to an interview you were on before?
So I can hear what you sound like. Good. I did some interviews this week and one guy was in literally a glass box and I was like, Ooh. So had I known that I would have said no. And then if you want to, and if you have, numbers, you can say, Oh, by the way, I have, 800 Twitter followers. I have 2000 Instagram blah-blah-blah, but you'll hear it in a couple weeks on the school of podcasting, I interviewed somebody who was, who does podcast booking.
And she said maybe what you should be looking at instead of. Who has the biggest audience, blah, blah, blah. Look at it. As who do I want to start a relationship with? She goes, because that's really the power of being a guest on somebody's show is when you start to develop a relationship with that podcaster, in theory, it's not just Hey, thanks so much for letting me get in front of your audience.
I'll see you later. And I was like, that's a really good point. If that's something you're thinking about now, the problem is that takes time. And that's why people then tend to revert to spray and pray, which drives me crazy. But the other thing we, I know we can talk about today is Jim, you've been playing with a new toy super CAS
Chris: [00:07:09] yeah.
Super cast. So I had a listener actually reach out to me and say, Hey, could you, would you put your feet on super cast? And I, my first thought was, Oh my God, another place to do this. And so eventually I was like, okay, I'll give it a try. So I headed over there and it's actually a super easy, we did some with the listener, did some cost analysis okay.
Let's just first explain what super cast is. Yeah. But basically super cast is a Patrion on competitor in some ways. So you can put your feeds there. The model is a little bit different, I think. It's a it depends on the fee that you're getting.
Dave: [00:07:42] Yeah. I think it's 59 cents per user in that, of course.
But he's going to charge that 3% fee because they're getting charged that 3% fee.
Chris: [00:07:51] But yeah. So a little bit of a different I'm sorry, I wasn't ready to. But I'll talk from just experience the so 59 cents basically. So for a $3 $3 minimum at 59 cents, you think that's not, I think at Patrion we can get that a little bit cheaper, but then as Patrion goes up, I think it gets more expensive at Patrion.
Not that it's that much of a difference and I wasn't really doing it on price. He, it, they've got a, really, a fairly nice feature. Then when you go to sign up. On your podcast app you subscribe, it gives you a separate feed and then you put that in your podcast app or whatever, however you want to subscribe to it.
And really slick worked fairly easy. It was a great way to do it. So I think one of the things I would I'd encourage folks is if you need an alternative to Patrion, for whatever reason, if Patrion is not working for you, you don't want to use Patrion. That kind of thing. Patrion has certainly gotten complicated.
Super cast was actually really easy. I created a square account, attach the square account to it. Got it. Set up, dumped in my feed. It imported everything. There's a section, there were like 80. You want to import your current feed? Yeah. Bring it in. And it doesn't. They don't host the files.
They just hope they just host where they're located. So they take your RSS feed when you do that. Dave, pretty easy setup. I had it set up in 20 minutes, maybe 20, 25 minutes. Very similar to Patrion in the sense that you can set up these different subscription levels. So I set a $3 minimum level, by the way, three, $3 is the minimum.
No $1, no, there's no $1 things there. So three is the minimum. I said a $5 level for my little coin thing that we give away mimic to what it was on Patrion and then and then let it fly and the user loved it. He's yeah, that was super easy. When are you going to put your video feeds out there?
Geez, I don't think I'm going to put my video feeds out there, not right now. Let's just, so the
Dave: [00:09:39] other advantage is you can see how many downloads an episode got. And I would assume that's coming to Patrion because didn't, they get purchased by a cast or something. I know there's an, a cast connection there.
And a cast is a media host and what I do, what I, cause I use super cast for the school of podcasting and I just went to them and I said, Hey, I've got X amount of members. I want to create, an individual feed for each one of those people. And I don't want to charge them for it. I want you to charge me.
So we worked out a deal where every month they see how many. Subscribers I have, and then I get, again, whatever it is, 59 cents or something like that, plus the 3%, blah, blah, blah. But I'm not charging them. That's the thing. I might actually be paying more than 59 cents because if they make any kind of profit on that 3%, I know some people will work with visa.
They're like, Hey, we're bringing you so much. So many customers. We want to take that. We want a piece of that 3%. But Yeah. So couple of questions in the chat room, and again, if you're listening on clubhouse, you can just raise your hand and we'll bring up on stage. But Elena,
Chris: [00:10:42] hold on. Before we, let me, let's just take a look at it.
I did bring a whole page. Yeah. If you want to, if you want to take a look at what you get, this is just home gadget geeks. Th this is the basic landing page, so I didn't change anything to it. So you're, this is what someone would hit when they land there. I've got the plans that they can select.
They can sign up. Now you can be used to come to support or get the coin available how to get started and subscribes there's. They have an FAQ Dave. Drop dead simple. My fear is with everything that they're going to make this more complicated, eventually and you can see here, I'm in the dashboard.
And I had a, this is the one subscriber I'd come in. I have really haven't even advertised it yet. But so you get a dashboard and like what, like you were saying, you get some stats, episode downloads. Revenue in there. So yeah, I just hope that I don't, I hope they don't
Dave: [00:11:28] make it too complicated.
It also works with Zapier. So what I love is when somebody signs up at Thinkific, which is what I'm using currently for the school of podcasting and automatically pops them into a super cast. And then I use sandbox for my email. So it automatically pops them into that. I love Zapier. That's a great tool.
But yeah it's really cool. And then it's also easy because if, for some reason, in my case, like in Jim's case, if they canceled their subscription, it just automatically turns off their feed. But for me, I can easily, when I get a notification that somebody has graduated from the school of podcasting, I can go in and turn off their super castrated.
Yeah. It's one of those where I, for me, the one thing that Patrion does that this one doesn't, and I don't really, it's not that I discourage it, but nobody does it on Patrion. You make a post, like it's like a membership site. And if other members wanted to comment on that post. They could, and I don't know that happens in super cause they're just getting a feed and it's unique to each person.
That way you can turn it off, but I don't see a lot of that happening, at least for me on either of my Patrion things. People use it
Chris: [00:12:32] for the, let me think through this for a second. Because I haven't really thought through it. I don't have, if I wanted to create a private feed with this, I would.
I would create, what would I do to create, I wouldn't want to do my, I wouldn't want to give them my public open feed. Because that's available everywhere else anyways. So I would create a second feed of some court. That's secret that I'm not that I haven't put out in public. And then I would give super cast my.
Private feed. Is that right?
Dave: [00:12:57] To me, I just go in like I just had every Friday we have lunch with Dave. It's about a half hour of just group coaching. And I just go in it's there are my media host. I make an episode. I put in my show notes. I upload the media and when I hit publish, it goes out to all the men.
Yeah, they do most, yeah. That's where they get the stats from. But that's why I also don't think they'll do video because they
Chris: [00:13:18] won't do it in past. I thought they were doing a pass through, but then collecting the stats there. Okay.
Dave: [00:13:22] Yeah. Rob Daniel says, we're talking about spray and pray.
That's where people just send a generic email to you and they're like, Hey, love your show. Here's why I'm so great. Have me on your podcast. And I'm like, ah, and Daniel says actually spray and praise. What happens during potty training? But Ross says, do you recommend having multiple places where people can contribute or get paid?
Or just focus on one. I would tend to say one, but I know Jen briny over at congressional dish. Now she just has a donation model. Like you can, she has a Patrion, but if you want to donate like a one-time donate she has you can donate a Bitcoin to Jen if you want. She's here's my Vimeo link.
Here's my PayPal. Here's my Bitcoin. If you want to give me money, here's I will take it in any form you want. But I th. That's a good question. Don't donate
Chris: [00:14:09] Bitcoin people don't do it.
Dave: [00:14:13] Cause it makes you go well, should we start a super cast for this? Or should we just keep the pay? The other thing you have to keep in mind now is for me just maintaining who is active and who isn't, who, who gets added to the page, who doesn't, things like that.
It's a little bit of work. And if you add a second one, now you've got a second place. If especially if you're doing things like giveaways and sending emails about special event, you've got two places to go now. And to me, that sounds like a headache.
Chris: [00:14:42] We do special things for our Patrion subscribers. And, then do you now say Patrion and super cast?
And do you mix the two and do you know it, it does add an element of complexity and he can't forget about one. If you start another one, you gotta make sure you're tending to it. That they have special things over there as well.
Dave: [00:14:59] Yeah. It's one of those things. And then somebody's going to ask you which one should I sign up for?
And you go, whichever one you want to, because some people already have a Patrion account and it's super easy to add another one. And then, so it's be sure to add that question to your frequently asked questions page, because that's going to come about I think
Chris: [00:15:15] if you've got a lot of feedback okay, let's just say, for example, a Patrion does something really stupid and they have, they've done a couple of things really stupid in the last couple of years.
So they get really dumb and you get a bunch of, a bunch of supporters who say, Hey, I want a different way to do this. I don't want to support Patrion anymore. Then then I think you change, I think it changed when you need to. I don't I announced this week that we have the super cast feed.
If folks want to try it, I don't think I'm going to have a rush of people heading over to super cast to try it out because just one person asked, but I felt one, I felt like if one hour
Dave: [00:15:47] there's more. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: [00:15:48] And I thought okay. This will be a good experiment for ask the podcast coach.
The setup experience, setting up a square account. Getting by the way, getting the square account set up and working, you get, you sign up for free square. That take, that was super easy. I don't know what the backside of this is. Like as far as like reporting goes and taxes that'll come up next year, but have you been, have you used it through a year or so?
Dave: [00:16:11] Have you gotten, I just started it because I used to put the recordings cause all those are recorded on zoom and I would put them in Facebook and it just dawned on me that listening to a 90 minute. Q and a on Facebook is painful. Nobody's doing that. And I was like, huh, I need a way to get this content to people.
And I know Glenn is saying it's hard enough keeping up with just one, let alone two different planes. But yeah, if somebody said right now, would you use a Patrion or super cast? I like super cast. Like you said, it's a simple interface. I've got decent reporting in there that you don't get. And it just seemed a little easier and I love the fact.
That with Patrion, you can enable the RSS feed, but now you've got to teach your audience how to copy that RSS feed and paste it into their favorite app with a super cast. It's a little bit like the love feature in my podcast reviews where you click a link and it figures out what app is on your phone and then says, Hey, which one do you want to use?
Same thing with super cast it Basically, you click a link and it goes, okay, where am I going? And you go, why use overcast? And it then just subscribes to your show in that. So it's pretty slick. The other thing we want to keep in mind, and this is where I love Jim's attitude of I'm going to try this.
So many people think Ooh, if I do this, manna from heaven will fall. And it's remember, you're going to get about 3% of your audience. Maybe five, if you're doing phenomenal. I know this show, I actually looked at it. I was getting 8% and I was like, Holy cow. That's amazing. And then I looked at my weight loss show and I was getting like 0.2% and I'm like, Hey, you put those together.
Guess what you get? Yeah. About 3%. It's interesting. And Daniel says, yeah podcast addict link just added the, to love the podcast, but we're still looking on collecting those reviews. Very cool. Yeah. My podcast reviews just came out with more features. So if you want to check that out school of podcasting.com/m P R.
I know I I love the fact that I have mine set up. I think it's. On either Saturday or Sunday, it emails me weekly if I have any reviews, which is always fun. Cause lately I'm just getting a lot of hate mail on the podcast radio show, which is always fun.
Chris: [00:18:16] a, It's a show designed to get some hate, hate asked for it.
You asked for it. Kim says she doesn't like Patrion. And that she would prefer just to give it
Dave: [00:18:25] to a directly that's a thing, Kim. Cause we live in the same city. Kim has paid for her Patrion, be a check. And while I deeply appreciate that, there are times when Kim's I didn't get that email.
And I'm like, Oh crap. Because Kim is now a second thing that I have to manage and remember to include her in all that stuff. So when you add a second thing, it's another thing where you're like, Oh wait, hold on. It's fun that way.
Chris: [00:18:50] It's just like they're saying a chat it's. The balance is how many things do you have?
How convenient can you make it for everyone? I think you want to make it as convenient as possible, but you're a guy like me who struggles to keep up with all that stuff. You're going to have to set up some systems to make sure you're checking it on a regular basis or that you're going in and doing the things that you need to do on those.
Because, so for in Kim's sake, I would, I know Kim, would you do it via PayPal? Is she is that something cause they take, I think they take some too, when you do it that way,
Dave: [00:19:20] Palo has their 3%, whatever it is, thing, I think Kim was just being nice. She realized if she paid me with a check, it was like more money in my pocket, so I'm not complaining at all.
Kyle says the podcast radio show is the tough love your podcasting parents never gave you in a way. I did have somebody do a podcast radio show and I, I. Basically, they said, here's the thing, here's some things you can fix on your show. And his sister heard me and called him and it's there's some dude bashing your podcast.
And pitchforks and torches and she was ready to go. And instead the guy's no, he's got a point. And he actually signed up for the school of podcasting. Yeah. You never know, but what is, Oh, we actually have somebody raising their hand in clubhouse, so that's awesome. That is Mark is coming on up.
Let me make sure the phone is up on that. So in the way, this works, of course we're recording this and Mark knows that. Mark, how are you? What's your question? I'm very well, thank you, Dave. Yeah, I'm following you on a similar theme that I've got a podcast that I'm trying to raise money for charity with.
So I'm not looking to make money myself, but I'd like people to, if they enjoy the podcast to make a donation to a charity. And I wondered with your experiences, what you'd recommend. First things first, you have to ask for it. I know that sounds silly, but I hear so many people that.
Whatever their goal is. I want to sell more books. I want to get more bookings as a speaker. I want people to buy my membership site and then they never ask people because they don't want to be salesy. So you gotta be salesy if you don't ask you don't get. So that would be one. And the other thing is Jack from the darknet diaries who gets 300,000 downloads an episode, his big thing was when he asked for something.
He does it purposefully. He explains how they're going to benefit. And he does it slowly cause so many times people go or do a pitch and they're like, Hey, I set up this new thing. It's I, I'm going to try it. I don't know if it's any good. We'll see what happens. And if you want to, I don't know if you want to think of it.
Yeah. It's not Hey, I want to, if you made it to the end of this show, obviously you get value in this. And if you'd like to help support this show and we actually have a charity drive going on right now, and you can find email@example.com. So you can hear, and again, that website was spoken very clearly and slowly.com.
You can really help somebody right now. So you have to do. A pitch, but I see so many times I have people here on this show when I'm like, Hey, tell us where we can find your podcast. What's your website. And they're like, Oh, thanks so much. It's been a little.com. And I'm like there's no prize for saying your website, the fastest here.
So Jim, any advice on, how do you get some donations?
Chris: [00:21:57] Mark? Are you thinking you're going to create a podcast just for this? Or do you want to do an episode and an existing podcast for it?
Dave: [00:22:06] It's existing. It's a short daily podcast that I've started with the idea of raising money for charity in the way that you might run a marathon and raise money for charity.
I thought I'd try this because it's something I enjoy doing. Yeah. Yeah, you can do is reach out to the charity and say, Hey, I'm helping to promote your message. How about you help promote mine? Because if they're, they might be thinking about starting a podcast and you're like, Hey, I've already started one.
I'm promoting your charity this month. How about giving me a retweet or something to promote that Lee Silverstein from the, we have cancer podcast when he first started a show was originally called the colon pan, the colon cancer podcast. And his whole idea was whose message can I help amplify?
And he just then looked for a partner to a first podcast. So that might be something, since you, it sounds like you have your charity selected. See if they can, help promote it because when they, when you win, everybody wins in that scenario.
Chris: [00:23:01] Mark, are you going to are you thinking of just trying to do one episode to promote it or a spot to promote it over the course of a bunch of different episodes?
Yeah. It's ongoing really.
Dave: [00:23:13] Yeah. Yeah. And I really appreciate those bits of advice. They're fantastic. Yeah. And also I was thinking, you talked about. Patrion and super cast and something like that. So I'm also thinking about what method would be the best to try and say, this is the place where I want you to
Chris: [00:23:30] yeah, you need, yeah.
You need to check it locally. The rules around this, because it's taking donations for a nonprofit and then the tax status of it varies from location to location. You'll probably need to do a little bit of local research to say, okay, if I'm taking in funds for this, how do I make sure I don't get taxed for these?
They don't come to me because if you set up a Patrion account, you'll have to set it up as you. And so you'll need to do a little bit of work to like. And this is where you might want to contact the nonprofit to say, Hey, do you already have an existing framework from which I can direct people to where they can give you definitely do not want this coming in.
If this thing is successful, you're going to pay the taxes if you're well, depending on the location.
Dave: [00:24:14] And you better than have records to show, okay, I received a a a hundred dollars donation. I then made a hundred dollars donation. So you can see that the net income was.
Was zero, but you better have that,
Chris: [00:24:26] Mark different locations have different rules about what you can do in media, around these kinds of things. So just make sure you're not, you're not breaking any local laws by doing what you're doing to raise money for them. That just may be a good kind of a good local check, just to say again, partnering with a nonprofit.
They may know because they do this all the time so that what you can, and can't say, I definitely think. Small bits over long periods of time and get that. Get out information in your podcast upfront. Don't save it till the end. A lot of folks never make it to the end. You want that right up front and be bold about it.
If you're, if you want to do this, don't hesitate. Dave and I do the, we do the promo bits right up front to get them out for the, for our for our sponsors there. So I totally lost that word. I have no idea where it went. It just totally disappeared. But Mark, that would be those.
I think those would be my recommendations, but definitely check the legal ramifications of this too. Based on your location.
Dave: [00:25:25] Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate that. And I really like your ideas about promotion and being bold
Chris: [00:25:30] and doing it up front. That's great. Thank you guys. You bet. You bet, Dave, I love your point about being clear by the way on that.
Don't I think some folks come at this sheepishly, they come at it a little okay. If you want to, I guess just. Just say it, like it's a spot. Just say it. We,
Dave: [00:25:50] yeah, go ahead. Another thing too, is people don't like to sell and I always want to say you don't like to sell if you're not confident in what you're selling.
But if I'm helping somebody, it's a little easier to talk about before we head over to our mid mid pour here Carlos said I want to start a solo podcast, but I find it hard to talk so long. This is an easy fix. Don't talk so long and really, I'm not being sarcastic here, but podcasts don't have to be 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 40 minutes.
I used to listen to one. I it's funny cause it was a branding show. They did it every day. And the goal of this podcast was to get me to remember the association of Christian athletes and that worked because I can remember that. I can't remember the name of the podcast, but it was two minutes. And it's weird here again with a little planning.
So if you, what I do and you don't have to do what I do, but I actually write up a blog post to flesh out. What the heck am I going to say? Then I boil that down to bullet points. I turn on my microphone and sitting right across from me is Ken Blanchard is Kim Kranji is Jim Collison is somebody. And I'm talking to my buddy.
And wait till you hear about this thing, this woman did the best answer ever on the benefits of podcasting. And I just talked to that one person. And it's weird because you realize you're like, ah, but David's the wall. And if it's, and then you, if it takes 15 minutes to cover your topic, congratulations, your podcast is 15 minutes.
If it takes seven or eight, I do a show called I'm your podcast consultant. And the idea is it's supposed to be less than nine minutes. And now that I'm really boiling down, most of those are about four or five. And so I'm hitting one topic. I come in, I explain how you're going to benefit. Here's why you should do something.
And, it doesn't have to be super long. So any other thoughts
Chris: [00:27:33] we forgot to ask Mark what his podcast was?
Dave: [00:27:36] Is he still out there? He is still around. Yeah. Mark, if you want, let me, I'm going to pull him back up on invite to speak. Yep. There we go. I realized that when I hit the button, I was like, ah, we never asked him for his website, Mark, what's your website
or not? Hey, Mark. What's your, we forgot to ask you what your website is. Ah, yes. Thank you. The podcast is a daily podcast. It's called destination Tokyo, and it talks to Olympians and Paralympians from GB who aiming to be at the Olympics and Paralympics in Tokyo this summer. I'm the cancer and the charity that I'm raising money for is called Maggie's cancer centers.
My wife had bowel cancer last year and they offer emotional and practical support. And they're two of my passions. And yeah. So thank you for asking that one and check out the podcast. We have cancer because that's not just about the people that have cancer, but also the whole family and dealing with it.
That's done by a good friend of mine Lee Silverstein. So thanks again, Mark.
Chris: [00:28:35] Thanks, Mark. He's out walking the dog, he's out walking his dog
Dave: [00:28:38] and the dog. And Jim, are you thirsty in Amsterdam?
Chris: [00:28:41] That first 30 minutes is flew
Dave: [00:28:43] by Dave. Hey, fast. And that reminds me, I need to hit this button and that button, and we want to, we always think speaking of, Patrion and things like that we always take a second here.
To think. First we always think in this case we call them the teacher's pet if I can get my mouse to work. And that is again, our good friends over at the dog podcast network, where you can actually win $5,000. If you're a creator that happens to have a dog, they're looking for great stories.
Oh, and by the way, it's about a dog. And like Jim mentioned, they have a great podcast over there called dog edition. If you want to, you're looking for something to listen to while you work, walk the dog, or if you're me just walking around the block and you liked dogs, you don't have to have it dog. You can definitely check that out over at dog podcast, network.com and they're still there.
They're looking for a hundred, one dog stories. So if you guys one go over there, cause I don't know about you. 5,000 bucks in the bank would not be a bad thing, but we. Always thank our $20 supporters. People like Shane over at dot com. So if you enjoy all things, spies, check that out at dot com.
EdSullivan@soniccupcake.com. He's an audio editor. He will make you a sound like butter in your ears. That is a weird way of saying that, but it'll be good. And he's a great guy lay Latin podcast awards. This is put on by Felix and is powered by the audio dice networks. So if you have a land podcast and want to get involved in that community, that's a good place to start firstname.lastname@example.org.
He was in the chat room earlier. Glenn, the geek Hiebert. Over@horseradionetwork.com. If you like horses, you'll love Glenn and his horses in the morning show has 8 million trillion episodes. At this point, he's been doing a daily show forever, and it's a lot of fun actually tune in on Fridays. Cause they have a thing where they read really bad ads where people are trying to sell a horse.
It's Hey, come by Sparky. He doesn't bite that much. It's what? Max Trescott up in the air at aviation news. talk.com Greg, email@example.com where he's teaching financial wellness. You can find him at debt, shepherd.com. Kim craggy. Who's also in the chat room this morning. If you're looking to develop your voice or reduce your editing time or improve your content you got to go to Toastmasters and she's got Toastmasters one Oh one.net.
The Indy drop-in network at Indy drop-in dot com. If you've got a true crime or a comedy or a spooky story Greg actually we'll get your podcast in front of new listeners, which is what we're looking for. And Michael Delaney over at baby mountain radio productions. Find firstname.lastname@example.org where podcasting and hard work are made fun.
And if you'd like to be an awesome supporter or see our $10 supporters there on the page over there and ask the podcast, coach.com/awesome. Or if you would like speaking of one-time donations and things like that, you can go to ask the podcast, coach.com/store, where you can also buy my book profit from your podcast.
And I got to say, I had a great way to start the morning. I don't know what happened, but this morning I started off with four people. And said, Hey, I read your book. It's really good. One of those was the guy from pod page. And he said, I'm not saying this because it's an affiliate link. In fact, he purposely didn't use an affiliate link, which I thought was an interesting movies.
This was actually down to earth, like real life, no hype, no BS advice. So you can find that over again. It ask the podcast, coach.com/store, or you can send us a one-time donation, send us a mug, whatever you want to do. Glen gave me a great
Chris: [00:32:13] idea for a segment on a home gadget geeks. And that's like tech scam of the week.
That, he reads those silly apps in, in my space that really wouldn't be there, but there's a scam, you go on eBay and you see these two terabyte thumb drives for or on Amazon for $25 and you're like, okay, that's not even real.
And there's whole sites, there's YouTube sites dedicated to this, but it'd be fun to have a segment, scam
Dave: [00:32:35] of the week. There's one. I saw that I was this close to buying and it was apparently refurbished electric guitars and nice ones that are normally, at least $800. And they were all a hundred bucks.
And I was like you can't buy a Paul Reed Smith guitar for a hundred bucks. I was like, either these are stolen or something, but I see
Chris: [00:32:55] it to be true. Yeah. I
Dave: [00:32:56] see you have a screen in my looking to yeah.
Chris: [00:32:59] Do you want to switch topics real quick? Can I sure. Can I bring one up? I had mentioned at the beginning of the year that this is the year I am going to figure out how, what to switch my video.
Cam to write my webcam. I'm on a C nine 20 today. I'm on the iPhone. We talked about this last week I'm using in that epoch. Forget the name of it already. But I'm using the, I think it's called cam pock to actually use my iPhone. I'm using the front facing camera on my iPhone. I have it in a Manfrotto clamp in a holder.
So I'm using that struggling a little bit with the color, but, or working on it. But Dave, you bought something this week and I've been looking at this and you can show that the Sony 86,000 as a, that seems to be, or at least as I've talked to several folks, that seems to be a go-to camera for for web camera placement.
It's also. know a lot of bloggers have moved this way. They're moving to these kinds of cameras. I was in a studio here. We have a podcast studio that's opened up over the last year or two here in Omaha. By the way, they're, they just charged 30 bucks an hour to come in person, which is super cool.
So I'll get some more information on that here in a little bit. But so this is the one when I asked him he had three have these in their studio and cause they're doing video as well. I said, what are you using? He says, we're using the six thousands. You had mentioned to me that you're trying one this week what did you get and how have you liked it so far?
Dave: [00:34:21] Just got it yesterday. It's a Sony VZ one and it is basically it's 700 bucks. So it is not cheap. And what I liked about it is number one, it's got a flip out screen, so I can, if I'm shooting myself that comes in handy. And it's it's now on one hand, I can't switch the lens. The lens I have is that lens.
I have, they do make a company, made a deal to make the, if you wanted a wider view, but for me, it's designed for loggers bloggers and people that are not looking to do, to me, I just want to make a talking head video for the school of podcasting. And I thought about it and I was like there's a really good chance in the future.
I'm going to go. I wish I would've got that other camera where I could swap out the lenses and do this, but it's also like twice as much. I didn't see the 6,000 and this one also makes it super easy to turn that thing into a webcam if I wanted to. And I just started playing with it last night, so I didn't want to use it today.
Although, as I look at my image here and I'm. Somehow pasty and glowing. I was like, maybe they're not
Chris: [00:35:23] too bad today. I'm struggling. I feel like I'm a little Brown, just like it's a struggle I'm using eye glasses on the Mac to try to get the saturation and the tint and the contrast.
That's a lot harder than you think I'm not a video guy. So I don't really understand. I just move dials until it looks right. Yeah.
Dave: [00:35:41] I also found out that not everyone should be shot in 4k. It's when I looked at well, that's true. That's true. I'm a
Chris: [00:35:48] little worried about that. I got some wrinkles and you can't apply the zoom filters, Zoom's got those filters.
That'll make it look better. Right though, it'll smooth your skin out for you. And some of those
Dave: [00:35:58] kinds of things. That's crazy. It's actually a filter on the camera. If I wanted to where it's, I can have it smooth out my skin. And I was like, can it straighten my teeth? That would be great if there's some sort of straighten your teeth filter, that would be awesome.
But for me, I just, I was looking for, and I kept trying to make my iPhone work like a DSLR. And I was like, you know what? Let's just buy a DSLR. It's the Sony VZ one. I put a link in the chat room there. If you want to check it out, but I say this. Because I could have easily done what I'm going to do with the , which is 70 bucks.
This is not, Hey, everybody run out and buy a VZ one. This is something that in, there's no way to explain this, besides the fact, I just wanted my brand to have a little more Polish, just a bit. And it's probably fueled by keeping up with the Joneses. When I see other people doing this, which is.
Again, not a great idea when you compare yourself to others, you're taped, but I was like, and then it was a matter of look, I got about four grand granted stuff sitting in my closet that I'm not using. If I sell it, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to get 700 bucks for this camera.
Chris: [00:37:08] I think it's a good, I think it for you, Dave, it's a good investment. Yeah. I think having it, it doesn't hurt. And like I said, I often make a decision whether I hadn't heard of this VC one, I have to look at the 6,000 series and see what what people consider. But I don't think it's a bad idea.
The drawback to having my iPhone up here, which it's got great about it. And next week, I'll turn it around and do the rear facing camera. But the, I guess this is, I guess this is the, I don't know, what's the front is where the, where you see things, the back is the back of the phone.
So this is the front facing camera. But if I can't check clubhouse, like I don't, it's not like I have two I-phones. I can't help you on while it's up there. I can't help you on clubhouse.
Dave: [00:37:49] I can't. You got to go find your old iPad or something.
Chris: [00:37:52] You can't, I don't have any, I don't have one, I guess I could do that as well, but
Dave: [00:37:55] here's an interesting thought.
Anything before we move off the camera thing where we're going to put a pin in that. Yeah. It's different attitudes and there is no, you do you, but it was interesting at pod Fest yesterday, I was, I worked pod Fest all two weeks of it. I was working the Libsyn booth and we ended up Rob Greenlee who's really into clubhouse came in and the topic was clubhouse.
And so we were talking about it and explaining the pros and cons. And one person came in and said, how are you tracking your return on investment? Are you D are you seeing your downloads go up? Are you doing this and doing that? And it was interesting because that's not the attitude.
I see a lot of elicit because if somebody is in there pitching pitching, I'm not going to stay in that room. So I just said, that's, I understand that's what you're looking for. That's not what I mean, clubhouse, where I'm coming over to build relationships and get my message in front of people that don't know me yet.
And depending on what your goal is, you might use clubhouse completely different than I do. For me, I still think a great idea is to maybe set up a, an after show. If you publish on Monday, say, Hey, Wednesday at 7:00 PM Eastern, we're going to be in clubhouse. See the link in the show notes because you can get a link and just realize also the study came out.
70% of the world is still on an Android phone, which means they're not coming to your clubhouse meetup. There's a new one called stereo that I was this close to signing up for, but they wanted access to my contacts again. And I went. You know what until, I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but I was like, I think one app that has access to my contacts for no apparent reason is good enough at this point.
And Pamela is raising her hand. So thank you, Pamela for I'm sorry, not Pamela Chris. Oh, the one and only another guy has been podcasting for like forever. And is in the book, by the way profit from your podcast, you didn't know they had Chris Christianson. Yeah. Cause this is the guy that has been doing the amateur traveler podcast forever.
And if I remember right, you sell pictures from that you've taken while you're out and about he's benefited all sorts of times. People know maybe have you, I know you've gotten free trips where people, as people have said, Hey. We would really love you to come to or wherever, insert fake country here on the bop way.
It's a home of Hanson. You gotta
Chris: [00:40:16] be suspicious though, when you get the invitations too. Yeah. And if they're trying to, I've got a lot of money that I need to give to you
Dave: [00:40:24] Chris has now taken no, you've won a podcast award, right? I know for while.
Chris: [00:40:28] No, because Lou Von jello when there was a travel category, Lou would beat me every single year for whatever 10 years that they had that.
And finally, they decided that Lou was going to, get an Americas thing. They weren't going to award it to him. And then they did away with the Kevin. Yeah. No, but I've won a The awards in the travel space. So I've won a society of American travel writers award and a few national association of travel journalists, North American association of travel journalists awards, and then was also named by travel and leisure magazine in 2014 as the best independent travel journalist.
And that's all based on the
Dave: [00:41:10] podcast. Awesome. And got invited to the
Chris: [00:41:14] white house, got to be paparazzi for the Pope for a day. And the strangest thing about amateur traveler. If you're going to get a job with a Thailand foreign ministry. You'll be required to listen to two episodes of the amateur traveler and graded on your English comprehension.
That's part of the English comprehension exams. So yeah, it's been an interesting ride. Yeah. Almost 16 years, 16 years in July. But I didn't actually just come on to talk about that, but thank you. No, I was thinking you were talking about clubhouse and I was going back to the conversation about patriarchy.
And I've been doing a patron now for just a year or two? Probably. I can't remember if I started two years ago, maybe I started during the pandemic, but I do, an early episode, an ad-free episode. If you do this amount, you get the mug. If you do this amount, you get the sticker or whatever. But the thing, I think that most of the people who sign up for.
Keep signed up for is that monthly zoom call that we do. And that kind of feeds back to the clubhouse conversation of, I think for them. The connection is more important. And the funny thing is, of course, that's the one that's the most fun for me, it's much more fun than doing another episode or, putting out an episode earlier, putting out additional episodes or all of that other stuff.
I really enjoying the zoom calls. And, at one point they were saying we get to keep doing this after the pandemic. Is this the pandemic thing? It's I'm going to keep going because I'm really having fun. And I've actually found some of the guests for the shows that we've done from some of the patrons, as they start talking about their latest trip.
It's Oh come on the show and let's talk about that. So it's been really, and it's a as, is not a surprise in podcasting. I think many of us find that when we meet people who are our audience, they're great because of course they like us. So we have things in common. And so it's not uncommon.
I know that podcasters have such a great time when they meet their audience, that spending time with your audience then can be can be a blast, but I've done trips with them. Also, we'll do that with the entire audience, obviously, but with we'll do trips annually until COVID. And at first that was scary.
I'm going to spend a week or 10 days, out. Being myself, hopefully with with all these people. And then those have also been just a blast.
Dave: [00:43:44] That's it? I I did this recently where I just inter I just reached out to random people on my newsletter and said, I'd like to do some basically market research.
If you don't mind letting me pick your brain. And I got the woman that's on my show this week was we were just started talking about personal branding. And I was like, this is really, this should be an episode. And and there are people that actually go on trips with their audience. Glenn does a, used to do a cruise and he'd invite all the horse people together and they all get together and talk about horses and eat too much food and go to Cancun or wherever they go.
I don't know. But You can do that. But I think the
Chris: [00:44:17] history of Rome, I think he's done tours even after he stopped producing regular episodes and went on to the revolutions podcast. I think he's done some history of Rome tours still because obviously he gets new listeners every day because it's still a great podcast series, even though he hasn't done it for what, five years or something like that.
Dave: [00:44:37] And with Patrion. There are people that, that donate because they just want you to do your art man. So they're true patrons. Then you have people who want more episodes. So that's where the bonus people come into play. And then there are people that just want to get closer to you. And that's where the things like zoom meetings, or in some cases I saw where some people, they actually allowed you to shape the show.
Like they would have a quarterly meeting and throw out ideas for the show. And if you're at a certain Patriot level, You can help pick the topics that we're going to be covered in the future, which is great because it's coming from your audience. That's great. Chris,
Chris: [00:45:13] how many do you have when you do your zoom calls?
How many show up for it? I'm trying to think of how many I have in Patrion right now. A total. It's not a, it's not a quit the day job kind of money right now. So it's 30, 40, 50, somewhere in that range, but we probably get a dozen people who show up, I would say for the zoom call, how do you structure those calls?
What do you, is it a structured call in a sense or is it just a free-for-all? No, it tends to be a free for all. And just in terms of, I don't often come in with, sometimes I've got questions that I really want to get some feedback on. Dave was saying, it's a great opportunity for that.
I, one time I remember coming on and saying, okay, I think I actually gave them access, not just early access, but access to a show that I wasn't sure about. Do you think that I should put this show out? I think it's a little weak, give me your feedback. Am I being overly harsh? And they said no, you're right.
Don't put that one out. But other times, it's just, Hey, has anybody been out of the house and been able to travel at all here? That's what a lot of them have been like this last year or what plans do you have when things open up or whatever. But, it's a bunch of people who love travel.
So it always. Goes into travel in some fashion. And of course this year, Hey, what have you heard about vaccines? And all sorts of other things, because that's what we're all talking about everyday. That's that conversation that open conversation is just scares me to death by the way. I just, don't like thinking of having 30 friends on zoom, unstructured, so good for you.
If you can do that. Good for you. I don't in my listeners tend to be Chatty. They like, they'll talk a lot and I'll have one talk the whole time. And so I've tried doing those zoom calls as Patrion things, but I'm I don't like it. Like I don't, I get nervous and anxious before the com more than I do when I do the podcast, because I'm in control.
So good to hear you're doing that. I just don't for me, sounds like you like me are also an introvert would be how I would do.
Dave: [00:47:15] The most hilarious thing at pod Fest, we would have these set times where we would be at the booth. And so it's me, it's see it might've been rot, one of the robs, but we're there to answer any questions you might have about Libsyn we'll show off Libson five and, just talk about anything you want.
And it was either. Just absolute, just bubbling, Hey lifts and people what's going on so they can yeah. Show me Lipson five months ago or so Kyle or, whatever bef 50, you have a podcast yet. If are you. You don't have to turn on your camera or your mic.
You can just type it in the chat room. So if anybody here, Biff or Susan, or I see Nikki, thanks for anybody. Got any quiet? Not absolute crickets. And so finally the, one of the marketing people like, Hey Dave, why don't you show us Lipson five? And I'm like, sure. Let's, it's cause we're, it seems like podcasting attracts one of two extremes.
And it is, it's a great way to, to meet millions of people without actually meeting millions of people. And I think that's why introverts like it.
Chris: [00:48:17] Maybe go ahead, Chris, go ahead. At the very first podcast expo way back in the podcast and portable media expo in Ontario, California, the very first one in 2005 I drove down for.
Seven eight hours to get there didn't have a ticket because they had sold out by the time that I found that I can go. And so I was just going to go to the parties at night. I went to the first night to the party. I literally walked around for an hour and talked to no one. And I've learned to get better since then, but I'm by nature, an introvert and Chris's dad is much scarier to me than doing a podcast.
I don't have the introvert problem. Like I can go into any room and work it, if not, I'm comfortable with that. I'm super comfortable with that, but for some reason on zoom or whatever, fill in the blank. Having 20 faces and no control of who's saying what drives me nuts. You do we've set rules and you can mute people, raise your hand.
Those are all the things that I've gone to, but. But it feels, I don't know. I'm just not, as, I'm not as I don't want to do it. It's weird. It's weird. I just don't want to do it. So I need to find a better way to do it. Yeah. Clearly you just need a better class of listening
Dave: [00:49:38] here. Says when I get my students together on zoom, I have a list of questions and conversation starters as a backup, it says, but I rarely need them. Yeah, Jim, you should try it. You should. You should. And don't. Invite everybody find some people on your newsletter list and just invite 10. Cause you'd be amazed.
It is. Yeah,
Chris: [00:49:55] no. And I am doing it Dave, to be honest. So it at work at Gallup or redo this way, these coaching community calls and what, the way I've gotten around it is I have a speaker who comes for the first 20 minutes. So they come and present something everybody's muted. And then we slowly allow people to come in and then at the very end, it's open in a free for all right.
Usually by then everybody's gotten everything out, that they need to say and such. So we do it that way. And then I also have done it on a On the own gadget geek side, where I've invited a guest speaker, but that guest speaker, we had an hour guest speaker went the whole hour.
Didn't stop. Wow. It started and didn't stop. And I was like, okay, I gotta figure out a better way to do yeah. And I'm going to bow out here cause I have to go be on the last episode of this week and travel. I'm actually leaving the show as a co-host here in two minutes. So before you go a nicer on any of this model, we find you.
You can find amateur traveler, wherever fine podcasts are available or at amateur traveler. There we go. Perfect. Thanks for coming in to hear from you
Dave: [00:50:56] and Holy cow. Hey, before we drop.
Chris: [00:50:58] Yeah. Can you show my screen really quick? I mentioned this, the studio in Omaha, and I'd love to see others do it.
It's called weatherized. And just so you know, I'm not I'm not making this up studio time up to four people, 30 bucks an hour. So pretty re. I think pretty reasonable. And then of course they have production packages. They're going to say
Dave: [00:51:18] that's a loss leader. They bring you in at 30 and then it's X amount of money to edit it.
And things like that, which isn't a bad idea
Chris: [00:51:24] and incubation in a small, in the startup incubation center here in Omaha, that they've and so their rent is pretty reasonable. They're really trying to get people podcasting, just to be honest, they see it as a, as like us as a really cool thing.
And they're trying to lower the barrier of entry.
Dave: [00:51:39] Nice. Jim was coming up on The average guy.tv
Chris: [00:51:42] this week. Yeah. Dwayne Robinson is on Dwayne's works for Microsoft and we have some great conversation around this is the one you might want to listen. Pre-show on. Cause we talked about Teslas, so it's pretty great.
And the pre-show may be better than the show that kind of happens sometimes Dave, right? That early conversation that you record cause you record everything. So Dwayne is on lots of gadgets in in lots of fun. You can join us over
Dave: [00:52:04] the average event. Yeah. And if you're listening to us live, we've got another half hour of post show coming up.
So don't leave. And Don the school of podcasting this week, I'm talking with Andrea from the talk about talk podcast about personal branding and how these little things can be. You can figure out what your strengths are, which I was thinking about Jim, every time she said, knowing your strengths, I'm like, I know somebody who does a little bit about strengths finders.
And then working that into your brand. So that'll be coming out Monday on the school of podcasting and want to say thanks again to Mark over podcast, branding.co James at the podcast dog network app or the dog podcast network. And thanks to everyone in the chat room and all of our awesome supporters stick around.
And we're back
Chris: [00:53:00] when we are last coffee.
Dave: [00:53:05] Good. But did anybody learn like any big? It was funny last night we were on the podcasters round table and. There was a, a new podcast. I've been podcasting a year. He's a screenwriter, he's a film guy. He's an actor, he's a musician, super creative guy. And he said, man, I learned so much at pod Fest.
And I go, what was your big takeaway? And he listed about 15, none of which were specific. It was like, I learned how to grow my show and how to do that. And I was like, so I was did anybody get any actionable items, something you're going to do differently from. From pod Fest. Cause I, I am lying to myself.
I'm going I'm believing it, that I'm going to listen to the recordings dog on it. And I probably know that I will not, but I do try, I've gone back and tried to listen to a few people. Create art podcast, says a media kit. Those are handy. It's a, I do. I had somebody this morning.
That again was new to podcasting, not a very neat show and looking for a sponsor. I did interview Agnes from pod corn, and that's a really interesting service because there are people over there that are sponsors that are podcasts and we'll pay you to interview them. And I went, how does that work?
Work with the FTC? And she's Oh, you got to disclose and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, huh. That's interesting. But on the other hand, when you look at some of these places that want to get paid to help you get booked, they're charging you more than 50 bucks to be on a shelf. So if you want to put in the legwork, that might be a way to get on somebody's show.
We talked about that earlier, but anybody else have any takeaways from from pod Fest? A lot of influence.
Chris: [00:54:54] Can we tell our clubhouse folks, they can stay around where or 30
Dave: [00:54:57] minutes we still got 11 people in there. So if you have a question, boys, feel free to raise your hand. As you saw it in the recording that you are being recorded if you raise your hand.
But we'd love to answer any questions you have. And of course, if you want to jump into the video or on YouTube right now, if you go to ask the podcast, coach.com/live. You can jump, you can watch us there and actually ask a question via the chat. Or if you just want to jump into the video, we do prefer you have clothes on, go to ask the podcast, coach.com/join, but would love to answer any questions.
That's what we do every Saturday. And people always say why do you do this show? And I'm like, because not everybody can afford podcast consulting. And it's fun
Chris: [00:55:37] and it's fun. We've done this for six years or so together. Yeah. I listen, I never wake up on Saturday morning. I not, once this is maybe the one sure thing I could say in my life that I never have opened up on a Saturday morning and went, Oh, ask the podcast.
Like I've never done it. It's such a great, with our own chat room and now with what we're doing in clubhouse, which, we'll see how long that lasts and such It's just always a blast. We get the greatest audience in the world and it's super. Yeah. Dave, you make it fun.
Let's be clear. And I think this is a great podcasting. All right. Clubhouse people listen up for a second. Let me preach for just a second. I think the key to a great podcast, if you're especially, if you're going to do it solo, that's one thing. But if you've got a regular host, everything I do is great because I have.
Podcasts with great people. And so that makes me better. That makes the podcast better. Dave, you and I have this great friendship that, that, that helps in that same thing with my co-host Mike Weger on gadget geeks on my Collibra and on the Thursday. All those things work because the chemistry works.
And so it just, it's just a ton of fun to be here on Saturday. I know, like I said, I always look forward to it, so yeah, it's been really fun to have the clubhouse folks join us in on this. And that's an element we've been looking for a long time. That's finally available in that and it's currently working in that setting, so to speak.
Dave, thanks for being my friend and for letting me do this with you, it's a ton of fun
Dave: [00:57:01] right back at ya. Kyle says. He learned that layering is the key to sound design in soundscapes, more layers make better and more realistic soundscapes. There you go. Nice. I've heard
Chris: [00:57:15] rain lightning.
That's the layers, right?
Dave: [00:57:19] The thing I've learned is I just don't think I'm a fan of audio drama, or I have see, I need to go listen to girls in space because every time I listen to one. There's a little too much soundscaping and not enough story at a clip faster than a Walker on the walking dead. It's always for me a little too slow and I'm like, you know what?
I think I'm just, this, isn't my thing. I'm not a big fan of opera. And I respect that tremendously, but it's it's not my thing.
Chris: [00:57:49] I like it. But people do love it. And I think it's the place where you listen to it. That matters. I don't think Dave, you have a lot of, you're not in the right. Like you don't have a commute, like those kinds of storytelling, things are great on a commute.
You don't have a commute, they're great. Or when you're traveling you're not traveling. So it may just be, you don't mind right
Dave: [00:58:10] before I go. And coming to the stage is Lisa is gonna, and she has bunny ears on, in the picture in clubhouse. I do. I do. Thank you. You were talking about audio drama.
I do audio comedy, which I don't think there's a lot of out there. And maybe that would be more interesting than the drama on the cipher. So when you say audio comedy, you'll actually, you're actually attempting to make me laugh. Oh, yeah. And I think that's, I saw the Andes were announced that's the, whatever, I can't remember the name of the thing, the podcast, the thing that Rob Greenlee helped launch the podcast Academy, I think is that it?
And they launched the MBAs in, I saw where Conan O'Brien is nominated for comedy. And I was like, I listened to that show. And it's kinda, I like him as an interviewer, but I don't remember laughing a lot. Meanwhile, his assistant is just busting a gut when he's I was a, this guy or not.
And she's am I really, is it that, so Lisa, how do you
Chris: [00:59:16] structure your comedy? What's the, if I were to listen,
Dave: [00:59:20] it's a full on scripted comedy, like a cross between like Larry David and. Maybe one day at a time. Okay.
Chris: [00:59:29] So not stand up comedy, but story comedy
Dave: [00:59:33] story. Yeah.
It's story comedy. It's actually scripted. Yeah. Full-on comedy.
Chris: [00:59:38] You add, so do you have a set, like sound? Do you do you add an audience sound for laughing? Do you have a laugh track? What, how do you do that?
Dave: [00:59:45] No, but all of my actors are like really amazing. Los Angeles, voiceover actors.
Chris: [00:59:53] How long does it take you to put an episode together?
Dave: [00:59:55] Like 25 years.
Chris: [00:59:59] You
Dave: [01:00:03] yeah. A long time, a long time. So we have three episodes up. We'll probably have another three episodes up in June, COVID stopped us. We like to record in the same boat, so yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. So it's different. So I'm just saying, maybe listen to that and see if that sort of strikes your fancy.
It's called Lisa upside down and it's on every podcast thing of their, every app. But yeah, it's, I have another podcast too called project. Woo. But it's sometimes funny sometimes not right. Woo. Now here's, let's see to me, that's where we're probably do we talk about energy at all in that show?
No. It's like I interview really famous people, but they're all played by my phone. Okay.
It's been around for a couple of years and people really like that show and it's, like I said, it's hit and miss though. Cause sometimes like the funniest comedians will call on the show and be super serious and I'm like, yeah, really? Yeah.
Chris: [01:01:08] That's awesome. That's yeah.
Dave: [01:01:10] All right. Project blue and Lisa upside down.
Awesome. Is there a website where are, where you can go to to find those? Yeah. Lisa Orkin, creative.com and organiz O R K I N. For those of you listening. Yeah. Like the bug. There you go.
Chris: [01:01:27] On Lisa. Thanks for coming in and advocating for comedy. There we go. That
Dave: [01:01:31] I appreciate, I think it needs
Chris: [01:01:33] to be thanks for coming in.
Appreciate it. She made us laugh a couple
Dave: [01:01:38] of times in front of record. I now know to be something, if you want to come to the stage, I don't want to say their absolute half too, but like bunny ears are definitely going to grab my attention. Yeah. We're going to get you
Chris: [01:01:48] in. That's going to get an instant and Oh no.
Now you started it you've started a escalation or among what kinds of things, what kind of pictures show up in be careful now clubhouse
Dave: [01:01:58] people chatroom says I hate shows or a bunch of hilarious comedians get together. And aren't funny what I see there a lot. Is cause a lot of these guys, they're hanging out together at the clubs they've known each other for years.
We came up together in Boston kind of thing, and there's just tons of the curse of knowledge and inside jokes. And so they're busting a gut and it is funny to them because they have information. That we don't cause remember the one time with the orange rag at at the Sizzler and the thing and the waitress.
And we were like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So yeah. But like you
Chris: [01:02:30] get Fallon and Timberlake together always funny, but I think they actually, I don't think it's always spontaneous either. I think there's probably some structure that goes on behind it to make sure they're doing that, but.
It's that it's also that chemistry that works right. The Abbott and Costello chemistry, that of things that come together, the Akroyd, Steve Martin chemistry that came together on Saturday night live. So yeah I not only think, to Daniel's point, I always don't. I always think just jumping on, just getting two people together to talk, isn't always the funniest thing in the world, but when it's done on purpose, it could be funnier.
So do we, have
Dave: [01:03:05] we got Carl coming up to the stage? And now that we're talking comedy and the word Carl, I want to talk like this. Now, Carl coming to the stage boy, Carl, about to become the masters champion. So I hit the button to bring him on stage. I'm not sure why we were having a bit of a, there he is.
Awesome. Karl, how are you buddy? I'm doing good, man. I'm not used to clubhouse, so I didn't realize I do a desk. Can we help? I'm literally Dave, one second away from pulling the trigger on starting a podcast. I've already done a lot of pre-production work designer cover art and stuff like that. What's very well what's stopping me.
I understand the audio aspect completely. It's like the nuts and bolts. I'm going to wind up with easing Lisbon as my host only because you work. Yeah. Do you use the coupon code SOP free to get a free month? That was one of my questions. When you post, when I upload my episode two to listen, because they do, they automatically push the RSS heat to outlets like iTunes, et cetera.
Or is that something I have to do once I get two is you can go in and you set up your show. So you put in, here's the name of the show? Here's the description. Here's the artwork. You do that once and you pick your categories. So whatever it is. Then you create an episode. So you go and do that.
And then now that you've got a show with an episode, now you go to Apple and Google and Spotify and there's, they make it super easy to submit your show to Apple and that you do that once. And the reasons now, some people like other places do it for you. Yes. And you lose control. Or you lose access to additional stats.
So don't let other people do that for you. You want to do that. It's super easy. It's copy and paste. And then once you're accepted in Spotify and Amazon will approve you in about 48 hours or less Apple, and Google, and some of the other ones typically about five business days. And from that point forward Libsyn is short for liberated syndication.
Now, once you create an episode and wherever you've been accepted, your show just appears within 24 hours. Okay. At the same time, I'm also going to get a website for the podcast. And can I mention who I want to use? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking of using HostGator because they seem to fit my needs are best.
Is it possible for me to go send up a small file on Lisbon? Just the test file to make sure it connects properly to my website before. It actually gets pushed anywhere and becomes alive. I know it'll count against my usage on lids then I just want to know that once I do the website, everything connects people and go to my website and click and yeah, no, absolutely.
There are people that create podcasts, they'll create multiple episodes and they won't really make it public. It's public if you search for it. And if you know the. The file and all, but they won't actually push it till to Apple and the other places until they're ready. So yeah, you can start up a Libsyn account and, we actually have a WordPress plugin, if you want to connect it via WordPress, or if you just want to copy and paste it because it'll Libsyn player will embed on just about any kind of website.
So whatever you're doing and
Chris: [01:06:11] Yeah,
Dave: [01:06:12] because one of the things is a host skaters. They say they have all a install WordPress for free. And I didn't know if I should just stay with their regular site or insert install, web, definitely more flexible. You've got things like second-line themes. I just found a new company called Mex, M E K S if you go over to podcasting resources.com, I've got links there, but those two companies make.
Themes, which is like a set of clothes for your website for podcasters. So they're pretty slick. And then of course, there's always, if you want to hire somebody there's market podcast, branding.co we'll build you a website and WordPress if you're looking for somebody to do it for you, but yeah.
Yeah, I thought at the moment, I just want to get both the website and the podcast and the hosting up and running connected. Tested. And then I can put like a real episode up and start to publish that. Yep, absolutely. And that's a lot of people do that. Some people will do what I call an episode zero and it should, and it's just Hey, this is Dave Jackson.
I'm doing a show about podcasting and starting in April, I'm going to do a show. And this is what we're going to talk about. That's a pretty horrible episode because it doesn't deliver you any value. Now it lets you know, what's coming in the future. And what they'll do is they'll put that up and then they'll submit it to Apple and all the other places.
And then once they're ready, they'll upload a real episode with value in it and they'll pull the other one down Oh, okay. So I can't put a T well, actually I just want to, I, my goal is just to get it up on Libsyn, get the website up, make sure it connects to my website and then, and then put a real episode.
I'm trying to like, make sure all the mechanics work and then I'll put the real step up. Good to go. Oh, Good. Thank you very much else. I'll stop. I'll stop back and get that code because I don't have anything to write with, but email me, David school, podcasting.com. I can. It's SOP free. It's short for school of podcasting free and it's all one word.
Okay, that should be easy. And one last question. I'm going to go. Obviously I'm a new guy, so I'm starting out. I'm going to get like the baby plan on lynching. As my podcast grows, I just want to know, can I just make my episodes bigger and longer and they'll automatically bill me for the next plan up or do I have to sign up for that plan before I upload and cross that monthly?
Yeah, you run out of room. You just go into settings, billing change plan, and go take me from $5 to 15. And you hit save and you get an extra 200 mags to upload and off you go. Okay. Excellent. So I want to do that before I crossed that threshold. Yeah, the worst case scenario. Oh, you'd go to upload whatever episode you're uploading and it'll go, sorry.
You're out of room and he'd go, Oh, hold on. Settings, billing, choose plan save. And then you upload it again. It goes, there you go. Good to go. Okay. Yeah, because my idea is getting cheap and hope it explodes. And I just want to make sure everybody, all the vendors I'm using Ken, I have, I obviously know they're going to be about, it's going to be about a short town in New Jersey and it's like a man around, down as like to help publish it's a town.
I love I vacation there all the time. Yeah, I want to, I like the town. I want to help them bounce back from a, recent events.
Chris: [01:09:09] Yeah. That's
Dave: [01:09:10] a great idea. Jim, any other advice before we let Carl go away?
Chris: [01:09:14] No, Carl, just get after it, man. Get it published and get rolling. Yeah,
Dave: [01:09:18] no I, this is the last thing literally within the next hour.
Chris: [01:09:23] Congratulations. Thanks for jumping in, man. I appreciate it. Thank you. Here we go.
Dave: [01:09:28] Did you plant Karl? Was that a list I did not more frequently is
Chris: [01:09:34] getting, it was a really good, he asked a lot of really great questions, I think. And a lot of the candidates of starting, I think we forget sometimes all the necessary steps.
There are a ton, like how do I submit it? Do I submit it myself? What about hosting plans? What about my website? Do I choose WordPress? We take all that for granted. And once you got it going, you forget about all that infrastructure. But there's a ton of infrastructure. It takes to get these things rolling.
I love his methodical approach to this. I love that. He's thinking through all these steps and it was literally just a step. He is, he's just a step away from launching
Dave: [01:10:07] this thing. Yeah. He sounds like he's got the gear and knows what he wants to talk about and yeah. It's Craig says to hear the passion in his voice.
Yeah. Greg says, I love it when a new podcast or jumps in the pool. Yep.
Chris: [01:10:18] Yeah. And that local though you've done a localized podcast, right? You've done you for the area where you're trying to do it, don't expect gigantic numbers. Carl. You're, it's super, niche-y like if you're going to help the area.
Yeah. Great. But don't expect you
Dave: [01:10:31] again. And I got so lucky because. That's when I jokingly started. And I said, the one thing I've learned is if I'm trying to do a show, that's not about murder or COVID or, it's hard to find happy stories about here's some things that are going on in your city that you may not know about, because thanks to COVID nothing's going on in your city that but I had a guy on a.
It's either a very small local radio station or it's an online radio station, which in my opinion, not really a radio, if you're not on it, like if I can't dial it in on my car, that's not radio state, it's streaming audio, and I'm sure you have an audience, but he has like news that he does. And he goes, would you ever be interested in carrying my news spots?
And I was like, absolutely. Because the one thing I'm missing. Is content because I go through, I probably 25 different feeds looking for stories and that's the other one sports, eh, not my thing. And Hey, guess what Akron lost again? Yay. It's so I was looking for more, I wanted to get into the local businesses and most of the people that I would interview are going out of business.
But we have another fun question coming up from Mike. Mike I've invited you, there he is. And he's on the stage. What's going on, Mike? What can we help you with? Hello, you guys. Thanks very much for the stage. Really quick question, because obviously I got distracted just when the most important piece of information came.
When you answered calls, question you mentioned the company that makes podcasts or themes for WordPress websites. What was that second line themes. If you go to school of podcasting.com. S slash second. So SCC O N D line L I N E. That will take you over there. And that's my affiliate link, or you just go to second line games.com, but that's fine.
Yeah, those are also, I believe email@example.com. We
Chris: [01:12:29] have some clubhouse folks listening as we think about WordPress. In all its complications. Just no friends. Let's just talk for a second clubhouse friends. If you're like, I know the chat room, our chat room on YouTube knows all this, but if you're coming to WordPress for the very first time you're in for a ride by it.
I'm not going to say it's hard, but I'm also not going to say it's plug and play. It's no wicks. It's no Squarespace. It's you're, there's a little bit of effort associated with this, make sure it's secure. Make sure that you've got some plugins to make sure it's secure and makes. Because listen, we're pressure rules the world right now when it comes to the number and I forget what the current number is. Was it half or something or three quarters, something crazy, like a lot. Are running on WordPress, and it's a huge vector for, it's a huge target for hackers. So just make sure you're doing some site maintenance.
You're paying attention to it. It is not plug and play. You're going to need to pay a little bit of attention to what you're doing on your WordPress
Dave: [01:13:24] site. Yeah. I use managed wp.com and I want to say it's a dollar or maybe two per website to back it up every single day. And it saved my butt more than once where for whatever reason, you go to your website and you're like, Oh, look, it's the white screen of death from WordPress.
And it's because a plugin is automatically updated or whatever, but somebody is not playing nice. And you go, Hey, can you roll that back to yesterday? And even the WordPress community
Chris: [01:13:55] is fractured with this Gutenberg editor of sword. And it seems like it's calmed down now, but I've really never figured out Gutenberg it just to be honest, no, I am still posting, I'm still posting the way I used to post, which is based on code and not, but here's an entrance, so here's an interesting idea. Lisa has some podcasters, right? Or she has some friends who are actors who come on and act like different people. Maybe we should have some folks from our YouTube chat room, come in and act like brand new podcasters, asking questions, jump in clubhouse and pretend to be somebody else.
I just thought, man, maybe that's a, maybe that's a way for us actually. We're getting really good questions from clubhouse. So thanks guys for doing that. Just know WordPress is not. I don't want to, I don't want to scare you away from it cause it's very powerful, but it's almost, I have this equation that options equal confusion, and it's just so there's so many configurable options.
Dave: [01:14:49] you can get lost well and just because you can do something doesn't mean you always should. I've run into people with websites and they're, things are just not working. And you go in and they it's just pages of plugins and I'm like, And then if you decide you're not using a plugin or a theme deleted the re don't just disable, it deleted off your website.
Cause in some cases that will leave you open to being hacked. So I think
Chris: [01:15:14] in what's a 20 or 2021, that's the year we're in. I think my recommendation for a new podcast or today would be start with pod page. And you can you get, if you want to set up a WordPress site in the future, you can do that.
But I, man, I really love the ease in the use of pot and I don't have an affiliate link over there. So I'm just saying, if I know they do, but they just make it so easy and it looks so good. Yeah.
Dave: [01:15:41] So the big thing you have to realize there, and this is an a Libsyn thing. It's a media host thing.
Most media hosts, when you hit publish, it's not in your feed immediately. It might be 10 minutes, 15 minutes, depending on how busy they're. They're publishing servers going. And so it's not a case where you're going to hit publish, and it shows up on pod page and two seconds. I always wait five, 10 minutes go over and you can go into their dashboard and click on check now.
And if it's in your feed, it'll come to you. I'll send you an
Chris: [01:16:13] email too. But when it's published, we'll send you an email. Yeah. I just wait for those, they pop in. It's funny to watch, I, I submit to about 15 or 20 different sites when I do a new podcast. And it's funny to see all the notifications hit my email box, at various times, they just they start coming in through, okay, it's published now.
Some will publish instantly. But to your point, it's not always an instant thing. So new podcasters. Be patient, just wait a second.
Dave: [01:16:38] It's going to space. Gary says the second line themes look really good. A lot of it, they have some cool things with they've built. If you're using Elementor they built some things in the Elementor, which is a page builder system, which is free.
That are pretty cool. I have a lot. I like Elementor. It is pretty cool, but if it's divvy or element or all these things that really let you get nitty gritty, there are times that I'm like, I don't really need to select how big the shadow is. I couldn't get to the new book
Chris: [01:17:13] anyway. Yes.
Dave: [01:17:16] I've loved blowing my brains out my ears, but sometimes, you get into these really nitty gritty, like how I'm going to create a border.
And then I'm going to create a shadow of the border and how, what shade of, I was like, I don't really need that much detail. I love them, but it's sometimes it gets a little crazy, but Dave says I have 35 WordPress sites, all different projects. I've been hacked, ransom, defaced, and even used a fish, the national bank of Canada.
That was a shock to my system. Yeah. That's. I moved almost all my sites. Again, I have a love, hate relationship with WordPress. I still have the school of podcasting. I still have podcasting resources and I still have David jackson.org, but most of my podcasts now are on pod page.
Chris: [01:17:59] W one of the things I really like about maple Grove partners, where I host or a self-host from is Christian takes care of all of that by kit's WordPress optimized.
So he understands like the world of WordPress and he puts some additional security on top of it to make sure that even if you're not doing it right, he is just a reminder, if you're all, I'll throw a pitch in for that maple Grove partners.com is a great place. They do web and media hosting.
And as another option for you, it's, they're not a giant company. I don't know how many he's hosting now, but it's not a ton. He started the company for me to, you wanted to host me and he was like, Hey, do you think we can get some others to do this? I'm like, yeah, I think we probably can. And Dave, you've got some sites over there.
Dave: [01:18:43] is hosted on maple Grove park
Chris: [01:18:45] and it's just rocks. So if you want to check that out, maple Grove partners.com. Yep.
Dave: [01:18:50] Awesome. It is noon already
Chris: [01:18:52] got any, you have any podcasts and stuff this weekend, you got any doing anything with
Dave: [01:18:55] just a lot of edits. I've done a ton of interviews. And what I'm starting to do now is now that the camera is here is I'm now actually outlining.
I've already done this. I've outlined the path that people are going to take to start a podcast. Cause I'm revamping the school of podcasting. So I'm now making bullet points in. Once I get. The hang of setting up the camera and getting a good shot, I'm going to start rerecording the things.
And then once I get those done, once I get a full course done, I'm going to go to teachable and I'm going to go to, I think it's podia and upload a course, and then look at their like front page designer in whichever one was the easiest and the most flexible is who I'm going to go with. I think I'm going to go with podium, but I'm still sniffing a teachable.
And again, there's another example of there are tons of examples I could use WordPress for and I'm like, Nope, I've had a membership site on WordPress. Don't want the maintenance don't want the it's Nope. But
Chris: [01:19:53] before we go, Randy wants a
Dave: [01:19:54] Hare update. You're going to cut it now at this point, it's, it's getting longer and longer.
And when was the last time you came? The only thing that's a bummer. Is, I had a thing yesterday where I got a mouthful of burger and got some hair and I was like, I'm like, so what I need to do is go to YouTube and figure out how to use a ponytail. I think we're at that stage where I could do the ponytail and then maybe get a, like a corduroy jacket with some elbow pads and a pipe.
Chris: [01:20:23] ringing. I think it's the seventies calling. Exactly.
Dave: [01:20:25] No, I haven't got, I haven't got it cut yet. And that's where the thing is. As I start, as they get ready to make these videos, there's a part of me that goes, I should probably cut my hair because I'm not going to look like this forever.
And then there's a voice in my head that goes, or are you like, you got to keep this? And I'm like because it's definitely more work. Just shampooing my hair and stuff is a pain in the butt. But at this point it's not getting cut. But maybe no judgment. I think the idea was once we go back to physical.
Events, I would get it caught. I think that was, I just didn't know it was gonna take a year. I
Chris: [01:20:56] could not do it. You're doing, it would drive me. I would to drive me insane. I tried growing my hair out once and I'm like, no, because my kids, my middle son has super long hair and he does this thing when he eats where he just holds it, he push it, holds it to the side while he's eating.
So he make sure he doesn't get any food in it. It's Okay, but it looks, and this kid's got a main, like it is it's Fabio all the way,
Dave: [01:21:21] that thing is
Chris: [01:21:22] flowing in the wind. But everybody else is
Dave: [01:21:24] what I need to do is find my target audience and get their feedback. So I need to find attractive females and go, Hey, long hair, short hair. Which Dave, do you like better? And you have to
Chris: [01:21:35] go out. Oh, we can.
Dave: [01:21:36] Yeah, that's it.
I'll do it in close. I'll do a zoom
Chris: [01:21:39] meeting. We're getting close, right? I think vaccinations are this spring and I think by summer things start opening again. What do you think? I know we got to go, but let me ask you this one question. What's the one thing you can't do now that you're really looking forward to and when it does open up, what do you think?
What's that thing you're dying to
Dave: [01:21:59] go back to a hugging, my nieces and nephews. No, I haven't seen them in a year. We've had a couple zoom meetings, but they're growing like a weed and I was like, socks, man. I'm like, but and then I think just restaurants probably, I don't really eat it.
I, in some places are not take out. It's just not the same, you don't pick a
Chris: [01:22:20] hamburger out. Like it's not any gal
Dave: [01:22:23] Pola. Every time I get Chipola, it's cold by the time I get home. So
Chris: [01:22:26] we've we've gone to we've gone to bring in takeout home and it goes right in the oven and we reward that.
Just just to make it feel that way. I don't, I think, I don't know. That's a really good question because we have some restaurants that are open, so we, you can do that in a socially distance way. In fact, I took Sarah out for our anniversary last week and we went to timber, which is one of our favorite restaurants here in Omaha, in.
They had the tables separated and stuff. And I was like, this is the way it always should have been. Like, I didn't have somebody sitting like right next to me. Yeah. I don't really
Dave: [01:22:59] want to listen to their conversation.
Chris: [01:23:01] Oh, I was actually like, can we keep it this way? This there's really. This is really great.
I've always wanted to go to a restaurant where it's little more intimate. You have some space and everybody jams everybody together. So not even from a sickness or COVID or whatever situation just from it's nice not to have everybody around you. But and I'm not a big sporting events guy, and he's an E even as outgoing as I am, I don't like crowded stadiums, so I don't go to those kinds of things.
I don't know, I'm not really, this is gonna sound weird, not really missing anything. Like I'm CA this is one of those things I'm like, can we keep it this way for a while?
Dave: [01:23:33] My brother and I were both like, Hey, you got to stay home and work from home. My brother's yeah.
Okay. And what anything else? So we're already doing that.
Chris: [01:23:40] I guess the spontaneous to Gary's comment in the chat room at coffee shops on Saturday with friends, I think maybe some of the spontaneous things like that, or just a crowded bar on a Friday night is fun. Karaoke on a Saturday night at at Moe and Curly's here in Omaha.
I do miss a few of those. I don't do a lot of them, but in maybe some, I don't know, maybe some concerts and stuff, but even that, I don't know. It's big as an extrovert. I am. I don't, I'm not a big fan of giant crowds, so I dunno. We'll be out of it soon, I think. Yeah. I think end of the summer, by, by fall, we'll be back to some semblance of whatever the new normal turns out to be something.
Yeah. All right, Dave, how's it going again?
Dave: [01:24:22] We'll see you next week. You bet. We'll see you guys take care.
Chris: [01:24:24] Take care.