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Aug. 6, 2022

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People Are Paying 5 Figures to Appear on Popular Shows

A recent Bloomberg Article about guests paying to be on podcasts (and we mention the importance of disclosing this information). 

The site mentions Guestio which (if you wanted) you could have people pay $5 just to pitch you (that might scale back some of the bogus pitches). 


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Podchaser - Ask the Podcast Coach



[00:00:00] Dave Jackson: 

Ask the podcast coach for August 6th, 2022. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music that means, Hey, it's Saturday morning. It's time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast. Questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the school of and joining me right over there.

Cuz Jim is on special assignment. The one and only David Hooper from big Dave, how's it going, buddy?

[00:00:30] David Hooper: I'm

glad to be here from the 

Nashville bureau. David Hooper 

and of course author the book 101 podcast episode templates. You can find that a big or just go over to that's right, Dave, you are so cool.

Now, if you go to ask the podcast,, that what? Yeah, that'll take, uh, you right over to Dave's Amazon page. And, you can see all of his fun filled books over there. So, Dave, thanks for filling in today. We appreciate it. And be there the way this works of course, is we are ask the podcast,, and you can watch and, , ask questions there.

You can also go to ask the podcast,, and you will jump right into the video. Now you don't have to have your camera on. I realize it's 10 30 on a Saturday morning. Not everybody's beautiful, , at 10 30 on a Saturday morning. So if you wanna come in and ask the question live with, you know, so we can have a conversation, , you can do that and turn off your camera.

But before we get rolling, shake 

yourself off like a 

[00:01:30] Dave Jackson: wet dog and get on here. . But what we do wanna do is say thank you to our good buddy, mark, over at podcast, If, uh, you need a lead magnet.

If you need artwork, if you need a new logo, if you need a website I'm running out of it. Anything else that looks really, really good. Then you gotta go talk to mark. Here's the beautiful thing about mark, as opposed to, let's say some guy on fiber, uh, mark is gonna go listen to your podcast. He's gonna go look at your website and he's gonna have a meeting with you to figure out exactly what kind of vibe you want for your podcast.

And then he is gonna go design it. The beautiful thing is not only is mark a great graphic artist. He's also a podcaster. So in a nutshell, he gets it. And then Dave bonus, you're already for the bonus. I'm ready. He's Canadian. That's right. So that means mark is gonna be polite and, uh, super nice. Yeah. Super nice.

And you'll have a great time, , designing whatever it is you need. Again, if you need a full website, if you need a artwork for your podcast, lead magnet, anything like that, mark can design it, find him over at podcast, let's. Get 

[00:02:36] David Hooper: together with some poutine Barros. He'll get you set up. 

[00:02:42] Dave Jackson: And we like to thank, , Dan overt based on a true story podcast.

If you've ever seen one of those movies that starts off with, based on, you know, the black screen white letters based on a true story. And then you go, I wonder how much of this is actually like based could be like 2% or it could be 98%, well guy named Dave in the story. exactly. And so Dan goes over, and often will talk to somebody who worked on the movie?

And you find out exactly how much of this was based and how much of this was well fiction. , check him out based on a true story and Hey, just one more quick since he's here, again, check out Dave Hooper 101 podcast episode templates is his latest book. You can find that and ask the podcast,

If you have a question, let me go over and look at the, uh, chat room and see how everybody is doing. And the, uh, the big question this morning, and I went over and looked at this article and you know what we're gonna talk about.

It's everybody's favorite topic. And that is of course, according to articles, they're saying people are making $50,000. , , basically getting paid to have people on. Your, your podcast and Dave, what's your based on a true story. that article? We've 

[00:04:00] David Hooper: never met these 

[00:04:00] Dave Jackson: people, but, well, I know one of them, I know Travis.

I know the guy behind Gusto. Uh, yeah. And he's a good guy and he it's, it's weird because I have always been a guy. Like, I there's a difference between being poor and being broke.

And I have been like both, I remember vividly being at my job and thinking, do I buy a mountain Dew for the ride home? Cuz I love my mountain Dew. Oh gosh. Or this book like a Tennessee in yeah. Or do I get gas for the right home? And it was like, Hmm. So that's, that's when you're broke. And so I, I get that and my biggest worry has been.

If you start charging people for being a guest and you're like, wow, we got an extra 300 bucks. This is awesome. And then all of a sudden little Nancy needs new braces and the car breaks down. And all of a sudden that extra 300 bucks is not extra. And so now you will take anybody who will give you 300 bucks to be on your show.

Well, and once 

[00:05:01] David Hooper: they give you that money, there's the whole joke of, uh, you've shown us who you are now. We're just negotiating a price. , it's very difficult. I have all the time people show up and they don't come correct. As we say, they don't show up with the mic. They don't show up from a quiet place. And this is after with the broadcast show.

We've got audio check with the engineer and they'll just show up. Oh, Hey man. Yeah. I just figured I'd call in with a 10 can string cuz uh, you know, I just don't feel like plugging in my mic. Yeah, we let 'em go. But if they're paying that's a little, little bit of a different thing, right? You'd have to have that organized cuz it's $50,000.

Let's say, let's say just in a, based on a true story world. Well, do you wanna give that money back or are you just gonna put up with it? Cause you'll put up with a little more for 50 grand. Um, can we talk about Gaso for a second? Yeah. Just to show you, tell me if I'm wrong on this. I, I saw an ad for Gusto.

I'd never heard of it before, and I clicked on this. I said, okay, this is interesting you before you can. So wait, it works two ways. It's a marketplace, so you can charge for appearances. And there are a lot of people there that are, I don't know, 150, $250 for an appearance on a podcast, which I look I understand.

Uh, but it also, if you want to submit, you can pay 'em I think $97 a month, or there's a free version. Now, the last time I checked and you can submit a podcast to be a guest. And for example, let's say Dave, you're on there. You can either, I think take submissions for free or $5 up to $50,000. So there are a lot of people there that are just $5.

And to me. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because I like to know that people are serious about being on my podcast. They've done research, but what I really thought was interesting and I I've never submitted via guest deal. They have an opportunity for you to either leave a video message or an audio message right there in the pitch, which I love that because if you're good on the mic, Hey, David, David Hooper here at Nashville, Tennessee, I listen, I love the school of podcasting.

I love what you're doing. And you know, you can boost yourself up for what, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and then give them the, the files. And we, and we talked about like the, the asset pages last time I was here with something like, , 

[00:07:16] Dave Jackson: Brandy of Brandy. 

[00:07:18] David Hooper: Yeah. You know, you could just have all your stuff there with the link and , you can make it really easy , for the guest and for the host.

So I like the concept of guest yo, and I actually thought it would be really interesting to go on there and just book a lot of these, I I've seen similar services and, and to me, guest, Stio. Again, haven't used it, but what I have used, I haven't used it all the way. Uh, it seemed like it was really nice. I like the way they were doing the pitch.


[00:07:40] Dave Jackson: It says for free, you can find and, and book gas, you can connect via messaging. You can access the guest, press skit. You can track bookings in one unified place. Uh, I think it actually ties to your calendar if you wanted to and up to five bookings a month. Yeah. And then for 97 bucks, you get all that, , personalized and optimized profile, audio and video guests, which is what you were just talking about.

Unlimited smart list and unlimited bookings where you can only have five on the free plan. I think this is interesting search analytics for shows. Hmm. That's interesting. And a home. Yeah. I guess you, a lot of times, 

[00:08:14] David Hooper: these things will have it where you, uh, I guess connect it to Lipson or whatever your hosting company is.

At least the advertising, , marketplace as well. And they can have verified analytics, which, which I thought was really interesting. And I understand that, like, you want somebody to hear your interview, if you're going to. Go to that trouble. But at the same time, it's kind of like, eh, you know, it's like, it, it's like, you know, I'm not gonna take you to prom cuz uh, cuz you're not high, you know, it's like that kind of 

[00:08:41] Dave Jackson: high school thing 

[00:08:41] David Hooper: either you're out there spreading a message and you're evangelizing or, or you're not.

[00:08:45] Dave Jackson: Right. So, um, Andreas says I've learned from, , Dave and David that the guest needs to add value to my audience. Otherwise it's not useful. Yeah. That's a big old waste of time, , as well, rough $50,000 

[00:08:57] David Hooper: of value enter 

[00:09:00] Dave Jackson: , the thing I thought was interesting is, uh, Travis has raised more than a million to build the marketplace devoted entirely to brokering paid guest appearances.

, and 

[00:09:09] David Hooper: it shows cuz compared to the other marketplaces to me, it was again hadn't hadn't gone all the way through with it. That's a disclaimer. But to me it was very well organized. The user inter interface was very 

[00:09:19] Dave Jackson: nice. Yeah. He says, I was starting to realize that this podcaster is working their ass off.

To build their audience. And then this agency makes money because they charge the client for the booking. He goes, the only person who doesn't make money is the person who took the time to build the audience in the first place. Yeah. 

[00:09:35] David Hooper: So let me, let me throw you in there. Let me, let me bring some entertainment stuff though, right?

Because if, if we look at it from a musician standpoint, from a comic standpoint, those guys at the last to get paid. Yeah. That is how it is. Traditionally. You've got management, you've got booking agents. Those guys are taking money off the top and you're building something as, as a host. And if you can get it going, then you're the one who's got something really great.

And it's gonna last. So I've seen podcasters talk about that. I was in a, you and I were on a, a session, , networking event or something Dave, a couple weeks ago. And I ran into a guy in a small room. He's like, well, I just didn't think it was fair. All these guys making money and I wasn't making money. I was like, dude, you've gotta have something to offer before you make money.

And I think that these booking agents say what you will about 'em, but they're actually going out and they're getting rejected. They're doing all the hard work to get you on a podcast. That's. Worth money to me. Yeah. You can make, you can find a way to make money.

Otherwise, not just necessarily charging the guests, I wanna have good guests. And that's how you get to that level of having a good podcast is having good guests, not the guests that necessarily have the money. And that's where I think the people it's just very shortsighted. 

[00:10:40] Dave Jackson: Yeah. Well that's my whole thing is, okay, so now I've got somebody here that, you know, I got, uh, Manny Packy out says in this article who charges $15,000 for an appearance , and, uh, you know, so I, right.

Yeah. He's a boxer. So I have him on my show. He's a big name. Right. But he doesn't know a thing about podcast so well, and all this concussions, man, can he actually communicate clearly? Is he like a rehearsal Walker? I have the brains of an last cube. Yeah. 

[00:11:06] David Hooper: Yeah. Look, Hey, I went there, but is he a speaker? If it's Muhammad Ali, that's one thing, but you know, some of these guys are just not good communicators.

Are they good at giving people concussions? 

[00:11:15] Dave Jackson: That's it. And so. Consequently, my audience doesn't get any value from Manny Packo. And then next week I paid another $10,000 for whoever. And then I had another 5,000 for so, and if I'm not bringing value, then I lose my audience. And if I don't have an audience, then nobody's gonna pay me to get in front of nobody.

So that's where I see it. It could be a, a really negative spiral if you're just doing this for money. And, and you'll just let anybody in the chair, as long as they got their, you know, $3,500, they say the top earning show is entrepreneur on fire. A daily program that highlights various businesses, , says he mostly receives guest inquiries through his website and currently charges $3,500 for an appearance.

Now that's kind of a different story because John was trying to like, he had so many people that that's a, the law of supply and demand. Cuz John was so popular that everybody and their brother was think about this. I mean, I get the whole like. hello. I love your show. I think it's great here. Let me introduce you to somebody who, you know, whatever, uh, and it, it doesn't fit.

What I hate is three days later. Oh, in case you didn't get my first message. Oh yeah. I'm gonna pitch you that same person that you ignored. And I always just want to go, you know, some people can get the hint. Um, so I can 

[00:12:34] David Hooper: only, yeah, well, well, that's the thing about booking. That's why it's a tough job. And I think those guys just have it on a, an auto responder.

Yeah. And it cuts the auto responder off if you reply. But yeah. They'll get, you know, four or five messages to you. Oh, Larry David, just checking 

[00:12:47] Dave Jackson: around. Yeah. Uh, Larry says JLD is also an investor. Yeah. Travis, um, of, of what? Of, of 

[00:12:53] David Hooper: Augusto of Augusto. Yeah. See that needs to be disclosed. And that is the whole issue that people have with this kind of thing.

If it's just advertising, you can do what we call Paola and radio, this spin, whatever this song brought to you by Atlantic records, they will do that now. But it has to be disclosed and, , you know, good on John for doing really well, but I don't know anybody who's ever actually paid him money to be on there.

There's something that rose me the wrong way about that. I thanks for letting us know. He's an investor that why, what, what was it 

[00:13:27] Dave Jackson: Bloomberg? Yeah. Bloomberg. Did 

[00:13:30] David Hooper: they not? Did they not? Did they not even mention that in the 

[00:13:32] Dave Jackson: article? Uh, I haven't read the whole thing. I'm just actually read it this.

So I, there was another version of this on slash do or something. It was like somebody slash do and they had, and I was like, go where's the original one. So I just found this, but, uh, uh, Travis, uh, chapel says this paid out more than $300,000 to podcasters and guests in just the past six months, four podcasters on the platform have made more than $20,000 from appearance fees, including one who took in $50,000.

Now, my question is that for one appearance or for a ton. Anyway, although chapel isn't, hasn't set a standard price. He suggests podcasters charge a hundred to $150 per thousand listeners of their program. And then there's a thing about John Lee again. Yeah. For what advertisement or 

[00:14:18] David Hooper: for, for a full, 

[00:14:19] Dave Jackson: for a guest, if you want to come on my show.

So Dave, you owe me 150 bucks, buddy. Sorry. Yeah. 

[00:14:26] David Hooper: I mean, people are, they're not thinking long term. No. And I think as far as like, actually building an audience, actually building a career as a broadcaster, if you went to a legitimate broadcasting company, let's say Sirius XM, iHeart, they have their own ways of doing Paola yeah, don't get me wrong.

People are making money, but this is one of those things that is completely ridiculous that, um, I mean, technically it's it's for my broadcast show for music business radio, the show is completely separate editorial from. Advertising. I'm not gonna say that advertising doesn't help get somebody on. If somebody is working with an advertising salesman and he comes to me and goes, Hey, you know, I think this would be a good show.

I'm gonna listen to him because I trust his judgment. But at the same time, it doesn't necessarily mean the show is gonna air and I can 100% pull the plug on something. I mean, we, we pull the plug on things for a lot. And I, Dave, I know you do too, because we value the credibility of our show. Yeah. Now there are some people that are just gonna whore their shows out, maybe is the technical term of it.

that's fine. I think if you want money, if you're just a short term guy, if you wanna do churn and burn. But I think that a lot of guys, I think they take their podcast very seriously and it's an art to them. It's not just a churn and burn thing where it's. Oh, John's got a podcast now. It's not like that.

It's yeah. When I say John, I shouldn't used that example. I'm not talking about John Lee Duma. I'm saying just a common name, right? Ralph has a podcast now but you know, Ralph also has a book now that he had to ghost written and Ralph wants to, you know, it's like, some people just wanna be famous and some people just wanna make money.

And this is a quick way to do it. But yeah, long, long term careers had not built this way. 

[00:16:12] Dave Jackson: Well, speaking to John Lee DMI, he said, um, once people started paying him and goes, they showed up on time. They delivered massive value. They had great giveaways and calls to action, but John did something, but here's the thing.

, it says John includes disclosures regarding sponsor payments. At the end of the episode, saying today's value, bomb content was brought to you by so, and so he doesn't always charge a fee for some guests, such as business coach, Tony Robbins, um, Domi. Instead, this is like music industry stuff. Do Domi instead takes a commission off any product sold through his affiliate link.

In June, according to, uh, John Lee, Dumas's public monthly income report, he raked in $146,418 in sponsorship revenue. He estimated 20 to 30% of that came from guest fees. Um, 

[00:16:57] David Hooper: well that's common and FTC I'm sure would, would want to know about that because they crack down on it. But it's like you said, with the, the, uh, school, that's an affiliate link.


[00:17:07] Dave Jackson: it is. 

[00:17:08] David Hooper: And that's pretty common, but not a huge deal, I think. But yeah, there's technically, you're supposed to let people know about 

[00:17:15] Dave Jackson: that. And, and somebody told me in the chat room, I forget who it was said. I need to scroll down to the bottom and read the, the Michael Bostick. Who's the CEO of dear media, which is an Austin based podcasting company that primarily caters to female listeners believes in the value of paid appearances, uh, for the skinny confidential, him and her podcast, a popular lifestyle show.

He cohost with his wife, Lauren EV of arts. BOIC. Okay. Uh, the company charges $20,000 to $40,000 per interview or whatever it costs to buy out their ad inventory. The show says he reaches 200. Well, there's a different story. He reaches 250,000 to 350,000 per listener. Yeah. Well, that's a different story when you're getting well, they're charging 

[00:18:02] David Hooper: the, to buy out inventory.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's kind of the, uh, that's the slick way of doing it, maybe. Yeah. He 

[00:18:09] Dave Jackson: says he doesn't accept just any guest, but yeah, it's, here's what makes me worried about this kind of article is when people hear other people making serious bank, allegedly, allegedly, thank you. Um, they literally like foam at the mouth.

I saw a guy yesterday and I, Reddit was like, all right, I'm ready to monetize. And it was just like, Like he had a timer just watch or something. Yeah. It's like, Hey, I've been doing this a while. I'm ready to make money. And I was like, okay, well, like let's talk, download numbers. Like, where are you at? And there, it doesn't work.

I just pressed published. 

[00:18:45] David Hooper: Dave. There are no download numbers. Yeah. And just put it 

[00:18:48] Dave Jackson: up on anchor. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the other one. I had somebody I saw in, I think it was Facebook and they were like, man pot, bean, their prices. And I'm like, don't they have a $9 a month plan. I'm like, are we complaining about $9 a month?

Cuz they were gonna go to anchor. And I was like, and again, what were they trying to do? Make money. Well, and I, I guess my whole thing is it's really step one here. Here we go. It's on the board kids plan start grow. This is the, this is the phrase we're we're we're skipping 

[00:19:21] David Hooper: this step four things before 

[00:19:23] Dave Jackson: monetize.

Yeah. Plan start, grow then monetize. And it seems like it's. Plan monetize, like, or maybe start 

[00:19:32] David Hooper: here's the big issue that I see is that people overestimate the value that they bring. Yeah. Value bomb. You can call it anything you want to, but it doesn't mean that it's value. If I say my dog has four legs, but we're gonna call the tail of leg.

How many legs does it have still has four legs? And what actual value is the reality. I saw somebody talking about this article and, and she said, well, man, I, I think it's a bargain for, for entrepreneur on fire. Every time we're on there, we do $50,000. Well, hell, go on there again. Go on there because I, most people aren't, aren't gonna be able to, to do that.

It just, it just sounds, I was skeptical of that. So you're making 10 times the money, 12 times the money, every time you're on there, what are you doing? To my that's what I want to know. It's not really anything about John. I mean, you must have some kind of value bomb that you're dropping. That's 10 times the money that you're investing.

This is almost the kind of thing. And I like, I don't mind talking about it here, but it's so amateur to be thinking like I'm gonna charge guests and I'm worth $50,000. I'm worth $10,000, or just because I showed up and I paid money for squad and I've bought a SM 58 for a hundred dollars that you owe me money.

This is one of those things that a, a real entrepreneur and a real podcast, or somebody who's really in the game for a long time is not gonna be doing it like this. Yeah. It's an opinion, you know? 

[00:21:02] Dave Jackson: Uh, well bill says here's, Bill's got something there's a huge difference between an affiliate link and basically turning out a 30 to 90 minute infomercial, which kinda, you know, in some of those cases, that's another worry is.

You know, if that guy's or girl is paying you, you know, thousands of dollars, they might have some input or expect some input on the questions and what we're gonna cover and make sure I get to mention that I'm on a boat. Um, does that happen 

[00:21:30] David Hooper: with you, Dave? Do people send you talking point? Here's what I wanna cover?

No. Do you have that? 

[00:21:33] Dave Jackson: No, I usually have 

[00:21:34] David Hooper: it happen all I have it happen all the time. I've had publicists sit in the room with me and try to change the interview as it's happening. Wow. And to them, I say, boo, Tennessee salute, this is my show. Yeah. I interview you how I want to. And I ask the questions that I want to, and I'll talk about the topics that I want to 

[00:21:56] Dave Jackson: now.

I did something in my last interview. I was interviewing, uh, Steve Stewart mark deal from the podcast editor academy. And we kind of went through all the questions I had and I don't normally ask this, but I said, Hey, this is at a point, whatever I said, is there anything else I should know that we should talk about?

And mark looked at Steve and said, should we mention the thing that we're gonna close it and open it back up? And they're like, yeah, that's not bad. I said, okay. So then, you know, threw up a softball question and they mentioned that. So that's about as close as I get to like what talking point. I just wanna make sure I don't, you know, um, I remember once I saw a guy interview M young Fogarty, who's better known as grammar girl grammar girl.

Yeah. And he never mentioned that she was on Oprah and maybe he was trying to do a different interview cuz everybody talks about the fact that she was on Oprah. So that could be very much the, what he was going for there. But I just thought it was interesting that she was the first and, and maybe the only podcaster to be on Oprah.

And it's a cool story, but like I said, he might have just been going, like, I don't wanna do the typical Minton Fogarty interview or maybe she was like, ah, I don't wanna talk about, please don't make me sing. Freeberg. Yeah, exactly. I get that. Well, 

[00:23:06] David Hooper: I, I think that that's a thing. I think when you get into.

Somebody who's doing a press junk head. It's like, you really are trying to do something different than everybody else has done. And you're trying to keep them engaged. I always feel bad when I interview somebody. I, I have to balance this. If it's a musician, who's had a 40 50 year career and you wanna talk about the hits from the seventies, but they, they wanna talk about what they're doing now.

And this is really weird. I, I'm not gonna mention the name, but I, I interviewed a guy this week. If you go to his band on, on Spotify at 7.6 million listeners per month, if you go to the solo record that he's promoting 1500 listeners. Mm. Like what how's that? Do people just not know about it probably.

Right. But it's kind of weird. That would say to me, like when I'm interviewing him, I've gotta talk about the popular stuff. If I want people to listen, speaking to people, listen, you've gotta have something of value to them. And they wanna hear about the. He got that, but you've gotta, you've gotta balance this stuff out now.

I think that's the thing is nobody really here is talking about the listeners. They're talking about themselves. I'm not making money. Therefore I need to make money. I'm gonna charge you for this thing. And then the guest is talking about, I want to get an ROI, but what about people listening? Cuz it doesn't happen without them.

And that is a huge mistake to not think about the end listener, cuz they're the ones who put you on the map in the first place. And they're the ones who can make you real 

[00:24:24] Dave Jackson: money. Absolutely. Here's a quote it says this could pose a problem in the future.

A federal trade commission spokeperson said that there's a deception. Whenever consumers are misled about the nature of advertising and promotional messages regard. Of the media format, meaning that might be podcasting, the re tour. Didn't say if it would crack down on podcasters who improperly disclose paying guests, but the message could serve as a warning to host.

So if you are doing this, you might be, you know, you wanna make sure to disclose, which is why every time you watch the sham wow. Commercial, right. it starts off with the following is a paid, , announcement or something like that. , or if you're listening to, the Dr. Nick show on Sunday morning at 8:00 AM on Sunday am radio, the following is a paid promotion.

You know, it's like, Hey, this is a commercial. It sounds like the radio, but it's a commercial. And it's like, that's. So they got paid paid air time. Yeah. Yeah. So were, were there rules? 

[00:25:27] David Hooper: Podcasting has no rules. We talked about it the last time I was on here about the FCC. There is a piece of paper that costs a lot of money for you to broadcast on FM am any of the public B.

and, you know, we don't have that as podcasters, but yeah, that's probably what's gonna happen if it becomes a problem, FTC will come in and they certainly did it with affiliate issues. Mm-hmm used to see these two-tier affiliate. Uh, do you know what I'm talking about, Dave, where you sign me up and yeah, everything I sell you also get a commission on, they cracked down on that.

PayPal won't do any payments on that. A lot of people, the payment processors won't do it. That's FTC. And I know people that have been in court with FTC. It's not a place for you 

[00:26:07] Dave Jackson: to be, no, you don't wanna be in court for anything. Like, no, 

[00:26:11] David Hooper: I mean, I, I don't even know that it's even court, the FTC just shows up in your door and they said, you know, hand me the money, cuz we already know that you're guilty.

It's like the we're working with the IRS it's there's no trial. So 

[00:26:21] Dave Jackson: Dr says, well, what would that podcast or disclaimer, sound like? , the following is a paid ad, not an interview or even if it was just like, Hey today, , our special guest host is Dave Hooper, , full disclosure. Dave paid me $150 to sit in the chair today and 

[00:26:41] David Hooper: put up with him.

Yeah. And ask him questions that he has. Pre-written 

[00:26:45] Dave Jackson: yeah. I've somewhere in there. They, your audience has to know that I'm getting paid to have this person on the show. Um, I, 

[00:26:55] David Hooper: I feel that they even do that when, uh, you talked about infomercials, like on television, are, are there not multiple things? Like the followings have paid advertisement don't they do that in the middle because they have commercial breaks, but the whole thing is a commercial.

Yeah. I feel like they do that throughout. They do, uh, okay. Video 

[00:27:10] Dave Jackson: messages. You don't have to disclose the amount. Uh, Daniel G. Lewis says, and he's, he's got it down. He goes, I have a text expander disclosure snippet for whenever I share direct affiliate link online. And if you go to support this expander, that's my affiliate link.

So they. 

[00:27:29] David Hooper: See, I, that's the kind of stuff that I think gets a little bit ridiculous that everybody wants to disclose affiliates and I understand why they do because the FTC of what we're just talking about. Right. But, , even when you go to a conference, this is, what's gonna be interesting to me.

Cause I know a lot of podcasting conferences, we're just gonna call it out. This is what happens when I come on the, the podcast coach they have spots for speakers based on who is paying them, , for a booth or something like that. If you want to speak at a podcasting conference and a lot of people seem to buy a booth.

This is the way that it works. Any kind of Tony Robbins seminar that you do, any of these kind of, uh, pitch Fest kind of things. Usually what it is is you split the money with the promoter and you get a little bit of information, you get a pitch and that's why they let 'em get away. They say no pitching, no pitching.

You see everybody pitching. That's usually some kind of deal that they've got. 

[00:28:22] Dave Jackson: , It has to be because, um, mark Cuban is coming back as a keynote speaker to podcast movement. And everybody at, at the last time he did this, remember he was, , promoting fireside fire side. Is that still around? Kind of, and everybody, cuz he just kind of came out and was like, Hey podcasters, you guys haven't done squat in the last 10 years.

And you're like, you, you a shark tank. Yeah. It's like, you do know that you're talking to the people who have been trying to, like, you just basically crapped all over your audience, Mr. Millionaire, Cuban, and he's coming back. And I was like, wait, what? And I'm like, why would they have him back? Because everybody said a, he came out and crapped all the audience and then B he didn't deliver any value.

, but that guy's got a lot of money. So I was like, maybe that's why he's coming back. I don't know. 

[00:29:10] David Hooper: Well, he's a celebrity, so maybe that's it. But it seems weird to bring somebody back that you've already had. Even though I'm back here on the second time. So thank you, Dave. 

[00:29:20] Dave Jackson: well, you're good.

And you're steady and you, and you bring value and, 

[00:29:23] David Hooper: uh, you know, client controversy maybe. Yeah, 

[00:29:25] Dave Jackson: there we go. The grumpy old man damnit, this thing is happening. well, uh, speaking of law, uh, Gordon fire, mark. The world's podcast lawyer. That should be on his, uh, his business card. , here's a copy this. Yeah, here's a good disclaimer.

We have received promotional consideration from our guest for this episode promotional consideration. Hmm. That's interesting. That's it? Wink? Wink. Yeah. Wink, wink. 

[00:29:50] David Hooper: Yeah. That's like, do you like to party when a girl walks up to your car? uh, yeah. party. Yeah. 

[00:29:57] Dave Jackson: We all know what that means. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Uh, Larry says, uh, he called everyone meaning mark Cuban, everyone in the audience, a liar.

Yeah, it was, it was a very cuz to me, um, Like rule number one of public speaking is know your audience and I, you want 'em with you, right? Yeah. I mean, I have learned when I speak at the national, , religious broadcasters, they don't like the jokey jokes as much as some of my other audiences.

And, uh, boy, I tried like two and I was just like, all right, well, we're just gonna stick to the facts for the rest of this presentation. So 

[00:30:35] David Hooper: yeah. Don't show up in your atheist shirt. You gotta you get, 

[00:30:40] Dave Jackson: you 

[00:30:40] David Hooper: know, well, that's the joke, like if you're selling to Mary Kay, you wear pink. Yeah. And if you're a, she podcast, you wear pink.

I mean, know your audience, you gotta play the room. 

[00:30:50] Dave Jackson: , Daniel says the podcast movement app discloses that it's a paid presentation. Well, that's cool. But I wonder if they disclose that before. Cuban's talk, I guess. We'll see. And I'm wondering what he's gonna be talking about if he's gonna be promoting, cuz almost all those.

I mean, there was fireside. Spotify had green room, I think was their app. Facebook had some sort of audio thing, obviously there's, , the granddaddy of the mall clubhouse, and it's like, I haven't heard squat. I think Spotify rolled greenhouse into something else. It just remember it was just the whole big thing.

And then, um, yeah, so I'll be interested to see what he's talking about. A 

[00:31:32] David Hooper: side note. I having run a conference, a big conference in Nashville music conference. I cannot fault a conference organizer for needing to make the numbers work. It is a very financially intensive thing to do and same with podcasting too.

I, I just think when, when you're getting into this $50,000 appearance fee, the way people talk about it, and there's some kind of, Bragga, OIO kind of thing that these hosts have, like I get $3,500. Oh, I got $5,000. It. They don't, they, they do not get that consistently. As John said, John's just doing affiliate deal, same as anybody else would do.

So it's, I, I just feel like there's, there's a little bit of a showmanship and, and puffy that unfortunately new podcasters buy into and I'm not trying to defend new podcasters. I think you're smart enough to figure out, you know, you're, you're gonna learn it. It's it's not even a hill that I want to die on.

Uh, but I don't, I don't, I'm pretty, really agnostic about it for as kind of curmudgeonly as I'm acting 

[00:32:29] Dave Jackson: well, that's me. I'm like, Hey, if you wanna charge charge, I just, I just see the picture that of I'm I'm just seeing that person they're on episode two, they've got 11 downloads an episode and they're like, all right, I want 150 bucks to be on this.

Well, yeah, you're gonna find out real quick and nobody pays that. Well, , I just read this book called it's from yeah. Some days is today by oh yeah. By Matthew dicks. Yeah. It's a great book. And I realized there was so much stuff that I was doing that not, not that you are not worth my time, but that my time is worth more than I thought it was.

And I'm not getting, um, like being on somebody's show who's on episode four that may never make it to episode 10. I go to their website. There's no links to all they have is an RSS feed. Right. And every we'll use my show, every episode is ask the podcast coach. Um, and then the title of the show ask the podcast.

He has really good thought out. And I was just like, wow, this is a, a new person. And I kind of want to go actually, instead of being a guest, you should hire me because you got a lot of low hanging fruit and it was just, like, instead of saying, I don't wanna be on your show.

I said, tell me about your show in your audience. , why do you want to bring me on. Normally I'd be like, heck yeah, I'll be on your show. And I'm now I'm like, I wanna make sure I'm a good fit. And, and I would, why didn't 

[00:33:50] David Hooper: you do that? Do Dave, why were you saying yes. Was it like ego? I like to be chosen or was it that you really didn't think it through that people, you know, might actually be listening?

Yeah, part of 

[00:34:00] Dave Jackson: it was, , this was a person that hopefully will remember me when they are on episode 97 and they'd be like, Dave Jackson came on my show when I was on episode three. So I was planning that seed for that. And it was a relationship building kind of thing, but I, you know, it's one of those things where you go, okay, that sounds great.

And kumbaya. And then you realize that a lot of those times when you're on show number four, like that isn't around anymore, that that person quit. And it doesn't mean that, you know, every podcaster quits, but it was enough to where I went to a list sign. It might have been on podcast chaser. And started clicking links.

And it was like, all these appearances I'm on are not available in public anymore. Not that they were gonna get a ton of downloads anywhere, but I was like, Hmm, are they not? They're not on pod chaser at all. I'll have to look. But I remember I was clicking something and it just seemed like every time I went to see an interview, like it wasn't there or something.

See, well, all right. So 

[00:34:58] David Hooper: that's really interesting because there is a law of diminishing return, I think as far as, not just forget if anybody's listening or not, but if you look like you're somebody who goes everywhere, I was talking with, uh, a musician, uh, from music business radio, and he had played with a really well known musician from the seventies from Canada.

I'll give you, I'll give you that, that clue. Cause I'm not gonna say who he is, but this guy, well, if you got a thousand dollars, he are ER, show up with a van, play the gig. And then go on to the next town and he's gonna go anywhere because that's just the situation that he's in now. And we don't want to be in that kind of situation where it looks like we're desperate.

We're just gonna do anything. I mean, have some standards, man. And I think that's the issue and that you see people going from every single interview they can get, it's either gonna be ego or it's either. They're not thinking things through. And I think I want people to feel good when I come on their show.

Like I, they have been picked. I'm not just going anywhere. 

[00:35:56] Dave Jackson: Well, and the other thing that, and again, this isn't bad. It just, you have to look at it and go, this is like, I'm going there to do a 20 minute interview. Sounds great. But that's not what it really is. It'd an hour, two hours at least. Exactly. It's like, there's a 15 minute warmup sound check then the interview.

And then there's another interview after the interview. Yeah. And then. Again, not that my time is more valuable than anybody else's, but it's like, I also started, I use a, a tool called toggle and it's amazing what you can get done in 15 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was able to go in and say, wow, I just did like two tutorials.

I made three videos on blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then I look at, okay, I could spend two hours with this person and what am I gonna get for that? Because they are new. They don't have a huge audience and yeah, I might get a relationship, but there's a really good chance that in about seven months, this is gonna evaporate and, or I could go over here and pay attention to the audience I already have , and make sure they stick around kind of thing.

So in this case, this person sends me a pitch. It's not a very good pitch. It's from. Podcast, singular guests, plural podcast,, which I get one podcast. Yeah. And no, she's had a few episodes, but it was just I'm like, why are you asking me on? And the other thing, and , this is, it's gonna be the title, this, this show.

Uh, yeah, that's right. I'm gonna say it sometimes, especially in a case like this people, you know, normally we talk about race cars or something. That's not podcasting, but we're gonna have Dave Jackson on. And it sure it smells like, and sure. Sounds like consulting. Let's talk about my podcast and how I could do it better, but it's an interview and I'm like, right.

You, you just wanted to like, not pay me for my 17 years of insights. 

[00:38:01] David Hooper: So, so it's not your audience, Dave, you went on there. It's the race car, audience, not a. 

[00:38:06] Dave Jackson: Podcast. Right. So all of a sudden they have me on I'm like, why am I coming on? So that's why I ask this person. I'm like, who is your audience? And why are you bringing me on?

Because it sure looks like you need consulting, not an interview. Now I will say 

[00:38:18] David Hooper: this. And this is one of the reasons that I think something like Gusto is really interesting because you can go through and you can line yourself up a bunch of interviews. And I think that's great, cuz as you've done more podcasts as a host than you have a guest and it's good for us to have that guest skillset.

So sometimes like if you're trying to be a good guest, I want to go through those 100 interviews before I get the opportunity to go on Oprah. So it doesn't matter. Who's listening or who's not the payoff for me is to sit there, listen to the question. Think on my feet, a lot of people can't think on their feet.

Have you found that out, Dave? Yeah. I'm amazed. The guys are great speakers. You ask him a. They're not good on their feet. So to be a guest, that's a skill to learn different, , types of people to learn different types of ways. Things are recorded. I had a guy one time, he he's like, Hey, I wanna do this interview with you.

I'm like, all right, how you wanna do it? Discord, discord. Right. 

[00:39:12] Dave Jackson: I thought that was like a message 

[00:39:13] David Hooper: board or something. No, man, we do it on disc. All right. That should have been a sign. And he ended up canceling, but I was like, all right, I'll go and figure out how you're doing it. There, there are payoffs. But I, I think we do need to think ahead two or three steps.

Yeah. And obviously it's gonna be about the audience number one. And if you're gonna become a better interviewee, that might be worth it because of the audience it's gonna make you a better host too 

[00:39:37] Dave Jackson: well. And that's sometimes that's why I'll do an interview just to like, I wanna see how this person does their interview and I wanna keep my, it is a way to practice my answers, I guess, in a way.

, Gordon has a point here, Gordon fire, mark, , disagree a little, if I can have an impact with my message, I'll do an interview as long as it's congruent subject matter. So yeah, if it's a small audience. So if this person comes back that I, I emailed last night and says, oh, we're a podcast about getting your message out and marketing for small businesses or something like that.

I'm like, oh, that's my target audience. I'll definitely go on. 

[00:40:13] David Hooper: Oh yeah. It doesn't have to be just about podcasting, 

[00:40:14] Dave Jackson: right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but, 

[00:40:17] David Hooper: but just race 

[00:40:18] Dave Jackson: cars. Yeah. If it's just race cars, I'm like, Mmm, no. Yeah. , Daniel says I give interviewers 25 minutes with me. I found it accomplishes exactly what I want.

It helps focus. The conversation gets things going immediately. Okay. Tr 

[00:40:31] David Hooper: so let me comment on that. Cuz sometimes I've got some of these guys that are in the middle of a press junket and they've got a hard stop. Yeah. And they literally go from me to the next station across the country. You're 100% correct about that.

In fact, I mentioned this guy with this band earlier this week. I had an hour with him and knowing that I completely prepped for it. We did the show in a different way. I didn't get into any kind of introductions. I didn't do any kind of commercial breaks. I just question, question, question, question, question.

So I've got an hour with him, which was very generous. And basically what I'm gonna do is turn it into two episodes because of that, because I, once I put the music in, we put the commercials in, I'm gonna bring in my, uh, my producer and we're gonna maybe make it like a mini documentary, but I was thinking like that.

So yeah, 100% with Daniel on that. And I agree with, with Gordon too, it's not necessarily the size of the audience. It's who is the audience. And to take it back to mark Cuban, think about shark tank. If you're on shark tank, all you gotta do is five or six sharks. If you win them over, you're good to go.

Yeah, you don't need America on your side. You just need the sharks at that point. You need America on your side. 

[00:41:40] Dave Jackson: Well, and it's always interesting. Have you ever watched. Where they come in and I swear they do a bad pitch on purpose just to get in front of the TV. Oh yeah. They explain publicity. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's always interesting. It's like, Hmm. 

[00:41:53] David Hooper: Scotty vest was like that. Did you? I mean, that was notorious. Are you familiar with Scotty vest? I'm not that you put in. All right. So imagine cargo pants, but it's, there's a Scotty vest hat and there's, I mean, every thing that Scotty vest makes a tie, whatever has like 8,000 pockets that you can put in, you know, iPads, iPods, or whatever you hope to.

Yeah. This guy was a jerk and of course they can edit it. Right. I know a lot of people been on shark tank actually, and they they're gonna edit to make it look the most dramatic as it can be. But yeah, he, they, they said, did, did you even want this deal? Why are you here? Cause it was an established company.

Oh. And he was asking for like a bajillion dollars and it wasn't worth that. So yeah, at the same time, you know, why put him on well, cuz uh, good TV. He was such a jerk. 

[00:42:40] Dave Jackson: Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. That's. 

[00:42:42] David Hooper: There's there's an opportunity for that. I, I don't know that shark tank is as popular as it, as it was at one time, but there was a minute there where if you were on it, it was pretty much a guaranteed 

[00:42:51] Dave Jackson: hit.

Yeah. The thing, because I'm a huge shark tank fan. I think every podcaster should watch it just to learn. Cuz they talk about like, who's your target audience? What's your cost of acquisition? That whole, it's a great kind of little mini. Yeah. , but they moved it so many, like, I don't know exactly when it airs because I recorded via YouTube TV, but I don't know, like when the new, like it's on MSNBC, like it's probably on right now.

It's like, it's like they just constantly run re reruns are. Yeah. But the actual, like new stuff, I couldn't tell you what, what time it used to be. I think Friday nights, I don't know what it is now, but uh, um, so 

[00:43:29] David Hooper: if, if you're a shark tank fan, by the way that there was a Japanese show called dragons in mm-hmm , there's a British show called dragons in also a Canadian version.

I have to go to mark de coats for this. Mr. Wonderful is on the Canadian version actually. Oh, so, but, but if you're curious, if you've got access to Toran, there's three or four versions of it around the world. These actually came before the American shark tank, but you know how this is how TV works.

Canadian's I'm sorry, a Canada's next top model, Canadian idol, you know, Zimbabwe idol. We, we, we have this. So if you're curious about any popular show like that, there's some, uh, it'll give you a different perspective on the world and, and shark tank is definitely that way or dragons in as they call it in England and Japan.

[00:44:13] Dave Jackson: Yeah. Well, even, uh, the office was popular in England before that was in British show. Yeah. Yeah. We Americanized it. Uh, Dan from based on a true story says most of my guests are limited on time. So I only ever do back to back questions. Um, no breaks, no intro. They're all the things I can do after, without wasting my guest time.

Yeah. A lot of times I'll just go, Hey, at this point, I'll say, uh, Dave, thanks for coming on the show. And you can say, Hey, thanks for having me. And then I'll ask the first question, which is blank. And then you hit record and you go, Hey, Dave, thanks for coming on the show. And Dave goes, thanks for having me.

And I'm like, Hey, when was the time when blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff that you can do later, if your guest is kind of short on time. 

[00:44:57] David Hooper: Well, yeah, I think it's, it's good sometimes though, I know for the radio show and you, we had it here on this show today, Dave, when you've got the music that plays live, sometimes it's good to get people into the mood mm-hmm so they know where they are and they don't think it's just a zoom chat.

But I, I, I agree with that just in general, if you're good at chopping things up and you don't mind doing that, that's certainly the best way to do it. And it sounds like based on a true story, it's more, uh, researched and put together than a straight interview. Yeah. 

[00:45:25] Dave Jackson: Yeah. It's not, um, I mean, it's a conversation, but it is more like we're gonna focus on this movie.

So. It's not two guys hanging out eating Doritos. That's right. yeah. Bros and beers, dude. Um, what's 

[00:45:38] David Hooper: the best flavor. Doritos, Dave. 

[00:45:40] Dave Jackson: Yeah. And, uh, Gordon has the next great show. Real Housewives of Peoria. Yes. Coming to a, you know, I'd actually, 

[00:45:49] David Hooper: I'd, I'd find that compelling. There you go. It's middle 

Thank Our Supporters

[00:45:52] Dave Jackson: America. Hey, let's take this time to, first of all, thanks to, uh, David Hooper for stopping in today.

You can check out. Book 101 podcast episode templates that ask the podcast,, or check out his website, uh, big And of course we want, oh, we have to do we have something new? It's a new segment. Dave. You ready? Where it's coming out? Yeah, we have theme music. Well, I dunno if we have, oh, I'm on the music, Dave.

I gotta go. We have to skip all these. Okay. So yeah, so we wanna thank our awesome supporters. You can go to ask the podcast, In fact, I will scroll them across the screen as we do this. We used to have the teacher's pet and that was like a sponsorship and I've kind of like ex made that for a bit.

And instead, what I thought I would do is, uh, first of all, I need to test this. So we'll, we'll do a little admin here on the show live. If I hit the mute button, you hear me or do, hopefully I cut out there. You did. Okay, good. Cause I'm gonna, are 


[00:46:52] David Hooper: able take out my headphones? You're gonna blast me. No, no, no.

[00:46:55] Dave Jackson: I'm gonna mute myself when I say a word. That rhymes with kind of Lexi, but not really the woman in the tube. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna have the woman in the tube from Amazon. Pick one of our awesome supporters. We're gonna, we're going to randomly, , say thank you to one of our awesome supporters at this point.

So open, awesome supporters from ask the podcast, it's Joshua podcasting, What that's it? So, and if you're you can pull emails then, uh, Nope. , open awesome supporters. Let's see who from ask the podcast. I am going to go with and she's drinking coffee.

Of course. Um, so what it is, it's a, there's a, there are things in Amazon called blueprints. And one was called random name. Yeah. And it was like, so the idea is blueprints. Okay. all right. , is you could have one and you could say, Hey, whose turn is it to wash the dishes? So what I had to do though, was, oh, I'm gonna program 

[00:48:09] David Hooper: that one.

Yeah. So I, I 

[00:48:10] Dave Jackson: too like that. So I just set it up to where I could go open awesome supporters, which is the name of the skill. I love that. And I probably give her too much info. All right. Which would you like ambient noise? No. See, now she's confused games. I, you 

[00:48:28] David Hooper: ask my wife where the keys were yesterday. I say, Hey, Laurel, where are the keys?

And it says now playing DJ Khaled, where my keys at . Cause it thought it was, Hey, Google. Yeah. I said, Hey Laurel. Yeah, it, it happens. 

[00:48:43] Dave Jackson: So the, the fun part is I had to type everybody's name and I, you throw in some coms and she'll pause. So it's, it's like it says horse radio, network dot D OT com co om, like I can't type in a website to have her say it.

So it took a little while, but I was like, you know, something to do here while I want to. Uh, so I wonder 

[00:49:05] David Hooper: if you could do something, you, you gonna brainstorm this a minute. Sure. So I wonder if you could do something where if it can work from a spreadsheet and you could take something like Pavley connect or Zapier or something like that, where somebody would fill out a form or do whatever your Patreon or whatever it automatically goes to the spreadsheet and you don't have to do that stuff manually.

Now it wouldn't work with the whole phonetic element and it would be kind of weird. The O needers like that, but it could be, uh, yeah, I don't know. There, there seemed like there would be some automation there. Cause I love the idea to bring this in for podcasting. I, I think the most complicated thing ironically, would be people figuring out how to broadcast Alexa through their podcast.

[00:49:49] Dave Jackson: Well, that's the thing. So then this is an echo show, which has a headphone out that I have going into oh, okay. A road caster, which then has an adapter to, I bought a cable that was eighth inch to quarter inch. Yeah. And it just, for whatever reason didn't work. So then I bought this little adapter. 

[00:50:08] David Hooper: I think , the echo dot though, the, the hockey puck, I think that has a, a Jack out though.

[00:50:13] Dave Jackson: Doesn't it? Yeah. So does, so does this one and I just dropped. Okay. So you don't need, you don't have 

[00:50:17] David Hooper: to have the show necessarily. You could go with a $29 echo 

[00:50:21] Dave Jackson: dot. Yeah. Anything that has that. And then I have this little adapter that basically converts. Um, so you've got an XLR to, you know, kind of converter there.

, and then what I've put on the, the screen here, this is the blueprint. So you can see Shane at radio GB. GDR, which she can say at, and I have radio G D a R E for So, and then, , yeah, so that's what, and you can see randomized, randomly choose a name and then I named it awesome supporter. So when I say open, awesome supporter, she says, except I have okay.

Dave and the awesome supporter is so it's like a, at radio 

[00:51:11] David Hooper: So it's like a skill Dave it's like, but it's like, but it's, but you're, you're able to do it through like their, what did the math book 

[00:51:17] Dave Jackson: tell the chemistry book. Okay. Enough of you. Uh 

[00:51:21] David Hooper: I love that as a, as a way for interaction.

Like, I don't know that. I mean, you could, you could record it, I guess Alexa people would have to trust 

[00:51:27] Dave Jackson: you. Yeah. It's um, well, the other thing is I can send this skill to just me. So like this isn't available in the Amazon store. It's called if you go to blueprint. Yeah. But dude, Yeah, I want, 

[00:51:39] David Hooper: I wonder if you were to do put, put in the Amazon store.

Yeah. Just, and, and throw it out the podcasters talk about that's better than you being on a bunch of interviews with episode four. 

[00:51:49] Dave Jackson: it's it was, yeah. It's what nerdy people do when they're bored. Apparently I was like, yeah, but, but here's 

[00:51:55] David Hooper: the thing. So I'm, I'm not trying to hijack to take it to like 101 episode templates, but if we were to talk about like segments and things that you could do for your podcast, we talked about having different voices and things like this is actually something that would be kind of fun.

Uh, you could randomize all sorts of stuff through Alexa. I, I think you've always been creative with, with Alexa. Yeah. To bring it in and like, cuz it's kind of fun. It's got that quirky, weird computer voice and it's like, everybody's got one. So, and it always messes up. That's kind of funny. 

[00:52:23] Dave Jackson: Well, yeah. And always twice I she's a talent before, you know it, you know, twice I've had to, uh, to mute her cuz she's going off on.

. So, 

[00:52:30] David Hooper: You remember the clapper, right? Oh yeah. A clap on speaking of infomercials, right?

If you looked it up your stereo and there was like a drum kick or something, it would just cut it off. . So it's, it's one of those things where it's, uh, I don't know. I think people can have fun with it. I love that idea though. I think that's fantastic. . 

[00:52:49] Dave Jackson: Also ask the podcast, coach runs on pod page. If you wanna check out pod page, check out, try pod , Jim's not here. It's an affiliate link. Uh, that is an affiliate link when I think about it. Uh, yes. So, um, it's, it's a good way to 

[00:53:03] David Hooper: do affiliate links by the way. Try. Yeah. Or 

[00:53:05] Dave Jackson: get well, and I also contacted, , Brendan over there cuz he might have, if he didn't like that, he, he could say, look, that's my brand.

It's my, you know, like that kind of thing. He's like no promoted all you want. Go ahead. , if you just miss Jim so much and you just need a little Jim go over to the average and check out home gadget geeks. If you're thinking of starting a podcast, when you think podcasting think school of podcasting, and you can be an awesome supporter by going over to ask the podcast, support.

So, um, no, here's a, uh, you know, people were talking about making money with your podcast and, you know, 3,500 bucks to sneeze on my show or whatever you're gonna do. Um, something that's, again, I'm not gonna retire on this, but I have tripod and I have learned pod And if you go to learn pod, because that's a tool that fits my audience and I believe in, and I like it and I use it a lot.

, you can take a free course. And at the bottom of every lesson, it says, if you plan on using this tool, please click here as a way to say, thanks for the free course. And I just got my last affiliate check and it did not suck. I'll I'll go that route. Yeah. So if you have a product that you use and you like make a video for it and put your affiliate link under the video, uh, pat Flynn, uh, did this with blue host.

He had a, YouTube video that showed you how to back when you used to have to install WordPress on how to install WordPress on, you know, your media or your web host and made all sorts of cash on that. So that's just another, he was doing maybe 

[00:54:44] David Hooper: 20, $40,000 a month. Yeah. And I remember he was doing so much that people thought it was recurring income.

He said, no, it starts the day one. And yeah, I, I didn't realize that he had a YouTube video. I thought he was driving traffic to those, those pages himself. That that must have helped the YouTube video. If you can do it, it's there for you. And it's nice recurring income too. If you can get something set up and we'll call mailbox money.

[00:55:08] Dave Jackson: yeah, it's, it's one of those where like I get the thing and it's like, you know, here's your affiliate check. And I did earn also, Dave, you could, maybe you could talk on this being more of the writer than I am. , I earned you ready for this. I'm not sure where I'm gonna spend it. Is, is this from your publisher?

This is from medium. , I wrote an article on medium and got paid 7 cents for it. and I was like, all right. Need to do more of that? Um, 

[00:55:37] David Hooper: a lot of money to some people yeah. That's like the that's Satoshi level money. yeah, 

[00:55:42] Dave Jackson: that's it value for value? So I know, I think you post a lot on medium don't you, or maybe not.

All my stuff is 

[00:55:48] David Hooper: syndicated to medium, meaning there's just a plugin and it automatically goes to, to medium. And, you know, I, I I've never gotten any money from them that I'm aware of. I don't think I've even set that up at medium at one time was really great. Had it was. Done by the same people who started Twitter were at Twitter.

They left Twitter. I don't know. But at this point I think everything is under a pay wall. So if you go there, you might see the first paragraph. And it just seems to have, like, they're trying to figure out how to monetize it. Speaking know maybe they should charge for guests, but , I'm not sure that it's, I mean, it's, it's automated to me all, everything that I, that I post on my blog, it goes to David

There was a David at one time, it goes to my blog. You know what I mean? It goes to medium. And, uh, I, I don't know that helps or not. It's just, it was easy to set up and I don't think it hurts for my understanding. Yeah. Somebody in the chat room probably knows better than I do. Could be. Um, there, there was a hashtag podcast just on medium.

Yeah, that was, was, uh, to be part of, that was pretty interesting. 

[00:56:56] Dave Jackson: Uh, Chris asked here, have you EV have either of you. Or people you work with experimented with Alexa flash briefing. I actually have one. Yeah, I do too. Always seem to be a disconnect with podcasts, but so much potential. The thing is how they work is in theory.

They're supposed to be less than, I wanna say 10 minutes, but that's not really well. 

[00:57:20] David Hooper: Yeah, less than 10 minutes is the Amazon rule. Now how they're best gonna work for you is quote of the day 30 seconds. A minute news. Yeah. Something somebody will listen to you in the morning. Just like a weather news quote.

Yeah. So if you had like a motivational tip that will work, but nobody's gonna sit there and listen to 10 minutes of 

[00:57:38] Dave Jackson: you. Yeah. Pod, uh, pod news is a great example. He's the third thing in my flash briefing, but yeah, I, I have, what do you, what do you have on the, your flash briefing? It starts off with the weather, uh, for Akron, Ohio.

Then there's like the Bible verse of the day then James Cridlin and then the newsworthy, cuz that one's longer and that's. When I hear in the news where they come on, it's time to get outta bed and start getting dressed. Cause the, the other three are just me sitting in bed going, ah, crap. It's Thursday. I thought it was Friday.

See, but 

[00:58:08] David Hooper: what you're talking about though, Dave, to get as part of somebody's daily routine, mm-hmm , that's what flash briefing is great for. Yeah. You can become part of something somebody's daily routine and Dave can just add it. He's already got the routine. You've got that existing momentum that you can get a part of.

That's why I thought flash briefing was great. But what I've seen done is to do, we used to have this thing, I'd take it back to music, business radio. We had this thing called music business minute that we were going to mm-hmm , uh, syndicate to other stations and it was something like, you know, like Paul Harvey or something sometimes breaking in with people or with stations or with any kind of syndication, do a smaller version of what you do.

So you might be able to have like a quote or something, but it has to be a complete thought. And that's where editing comes in. And, uh, Dave, you could do a podcast tip of the day, but you know, You gotta think of 365 podcast tips. 

[00:58:57] Dave Jackson: that's it, you know? Yeah. I, uh, I'm this close to opening a TikTok, um, account.

Just how are you gonna use it? Just to open it? You gotta dance. No, no dancing. Just open up the phone and go. When you publish your episode, uh, in your media host, it's not gonna show up in apple in 10 seconds. Uh, go back and check in 45 minutes done. Just, just a quick, like, um, the best microphone under a hundred bucks is the Sampson Q2 U okay.

Just, just a quick kind of like a flash briefing kind of thing. I think. Um, well, we'll, we'll see, but it's just one of those where I will say something that the reason I don't want to have a TikTok account is that's gonna get me, like I will be right on the edge of TikTok. And right now in Facebook they have reels.

and yeah, it, uh, it, and Instagram has stories. Yeah. And they're, so that would be good for them. Again, going back to how valuable is my time. I, I, every time I click on one of those things, it chews up at least five minutes before I go. Yeah, this is dumb 

[01:00:05] David Hooper: and well, is it even your audience though? 

[01:00:08] Dave Jackson: Right? That's the other, that's my big thing is our podcasters over there, 

[01:00:12] David Hooper: well mean they, they could use a podcast, but a lot of those guys who, when they think of podcast, you know, they think of YouTube and they think of TikTok.

So I, I don't even know that that would be worth it. People are trying to get me on, on TikTok and stuff. It's like, that's a, yeah. I see the appeal because people say I got 70,000 followers and they're playing the numbers game that gets back into that ego. But I'm, I'm not worried about ego. I don't care.

Who's listening or how many people I care. Who's listening. Well that's or the right 

[01:00:39] Dave Jackson: listeners. Well, it's like right now we're streaming on Twitch. I don't expect anybody from Twitch to come over and start a podcast. 

[01:00:46] David Hooper: You fire up. Call of duty. Maybe they start watching. 

[01:00:49] Dave Jackson: So, so that's it. And, and I just, I've heard people say, no, no man, put your stuff out there because the TikTok algorithm is like nobody's business and people will swipe left or right.

Or whatever they do on it. And eventually your, your stuff will find your audience. And I was like, Mmm, to the point where I'm like, all right, not now, I'm, I'm not saying no, I'm saying not now, but I'm, I'm starting to get suck sucked into that pool. 

[01:01:13] David Hooper: This, this is the reason that I think it would be good. Is we, like, we talked about doing interviews just for the sake of doing interviews and getting used to the skill of doing interviews to get really clear on delivering your message in 30 seconds or what have you got on TikTok?

Yeah, I think they've just expanded it. That can be helpful. A lot of podcasters, not us by God, but a lot of podcasters, really long winded. We've talked about the guys that don't get to the point where they've got a four hour podcast and who, you know, you don't need that much information. Yeah, I might try.

So YouTube shorts coming up. Yeah, that's a, that's a. That's one. I mean, everybody's having their version of, of short form content. And I think the skill is gonna be more important than where you put it. That's it at this point's. 

[01:01:50] Dave Jackson: Yeah. It's gotta, still deliver value just because it's short doesn't mean it's, it's great.

So, well, I 

[01:01:56] David Hooper: love the thing, but here's the thing about the, the best Mike Samson QT. All right. That can also be a tweet that can be a TikTok. That can be a story. And you could just run through these things. It could be Alexa flash briefing. You could just have these things in your pocket and you just deliver 'em.

Yeah. Like a new version of 'em every day. You don't have to rewrite 'em every single day. 

[01:02:16] Dave Jackson: Yeah. The, there is a, if you go back to blueprints, going back to Chris's question about flash briefings, how do you make one? I believe there's under blueprints, and the, the trick to that is your RSS feed can only have one episode in it.

So if you're oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're using Lipsen, I believe it's whatever your feed is slash. Last in the number one, if I remember, right. There's a hack for that. Yeah. And there's, yeah, 

[01:02:42] David Hooper: it sounds like a question equals yeah. One or there, there is a way for you to attach something to the end of 

[01:02:47] Dave Jackson: RSS feed.

Yeah. And then I know, uh, captivate has a thing where it's like, do you want a, you know, basically an Alexa feed, uh, dog on, and I said, the what's its name, but anyway, you get the a, so depending on who your host is, um, you know, it will, uh, it'll do that. It's it's something to, to experiment before there was James Cridlin.

I, I used to have podcast news flash where I would do, and that's why I tried it on the, uh, whatever you call it, the flash briefing and just the grind of a daily show was like, yeah, I'm not doing this. here's, here's the 

[01:03:20] David Hooper: thing about James? I think this is happening cuz sometimes he'll be from an airport.

So it's pod If you're not familiar with this podcast, you know, James was a broadcaster as they called it radio host. He's good at delivering. And I think he just does it in one take. Yeah. I've seen him do it that. That is not me. So for me, it's gonna take me, I'm gonna have to do five or six takes of it.

I'm gonna have to edit them together. Comp 'em as we would say. And yeah, so if you're good at that, but that's the reason to get into that skill. You, speaking of TikTok, if you go to TikTok, they got a 32nd video. It's got 10 cuts in it. 

[01:03:53] Dave Jackson: Yeah, exactly. So 

[01:03:56] David Hooper: it can be done, but you have to practice it. Now I'd love to know more about James's broadcasting career and how he got to where he's, he's pretty good on the mic.

[01:04:04] Dave Jackson: He played a clip in cuz he does pod land is kind of like the, the extended dance version of pod news. It's him and his co-host whose name is escaping me. Um, and they kind of take the top news that James talked about and they do a deep dive and they'll interview people and things like that. So that's always kind of interesting and he was talking about it and he played a clip from when he was on the, the BBC.

And it's interesting cuz I went back and listened to me. Is your voice a lot deeper now than it was back when you started. 

[01:04:37] David Hooper: I think what I'm doing is I've got more voice control yeah. Than I did. And yeah, I, so I I've, no, I've noticed that. I don't think it's anything just with getting old. Maybe I'm hell, look at Dion Warwick.

You heard her talk lately. Sing constant smoking. I I'm not a smoker, but that, that used to happen with a lot of radio guys. Did, did you hear all? I think it's local control is, is, is better than that comes with practice. Yeah. So I'm gonna 

[01:05:00] Dave Jackson: say yes. Uh, what's the, oh man, she's written a billion songs. She used to hang out with Crosby stills in Nash.

She's blonde. Um, not Joni Mitchell. Joni Mitchell was singing at some event. And, um, man, oh yeah. She's a smoker. Heavy smoker. Well, and, and should not have done that. I hadn't even heard the tape, but I can, I can imagine what it sounds like. Yeah. It was, it was in a, yeah, it was, it was not good. And it's one of those where you're like, Hmm, wish you it's.

Like when I saw the last time I saw David Lee Roth, , was when he was on a solo act and he was just, he had taken his Vegas act. That might have worked in Vegas. It didn't work in Akron, Ohio. And I just remember thinking, man, the last time I saw you was eat him and smile. Um, you had Steve V and Billy sheen.

It was this great show. And now he's like, my wife says, she's gonna leave me if I quit drinking. I sure am gonna miss her, but bump. And I'm like, oh my God, how the might have fallen. So I 

[01:05:55] David Hooper: think it's tough. 

Aging into A Senior Podcaster

[01:05:56] David Hooper: That's actually an interesting discussion. If you want to have it as far as like, how do we age into whatever it's like, you, you do something then it works, but it's like the wedding singer said this, cuz nobody wants to see Fonzi get old and you know, 

[01:06:14] Dave Jackson: a yeah.

[01:06:17] David Hooper: 

You grow and your audience grows and hopefully you can grow together. Right. But it is one of those things. I see it look at like Taylor swift, who is a, a teenage right artist. And you know, how does she grow into a young adult and, and, and older adult. And I think. Men have different things to think about than women.

That's another thing, but yeah, it's something to think about, , is 10 years from now. We just gonna have a boom shacka, 

[01:06:38] Dave Jackson: lacka, fire nation, 

[01:06:40] David Hooper: John Dumas gonna be doing the same act. 

[01:06:44] Dave Jackson: none. The fun part is, is instead of me going back, the outers sound like this all the time, like podcasting says 2000. Yeah.

That'd be fun. Well, I do, I 

[01:06:54] David Hooper: do think though, but you know, to take it back to your voice. Yes. I have noticed that and I think it comes from breath control, uh, you know, doing cardiovascular stuff. Even the guys that don't do cardiovascular, the old school radio DJs, like the guys that I set down with when I started music, business radio, and I was super intimidated by cuz they had these great voices.

I think it's just breath control and I've seen it with singers and they are able to take one breath and get like five or 10 sentences out. And it's amazing. They're not doing yoga. They're just speaking on the mic all the time. So the more that's why I do a daily podcast, just to talk, talk, talk into the mic and it's not perfect.

And it's, I call it the sausage factory. It's, it's imperfect in a lot of ways, but it makes this better when I'm actually paying attention and needing 

[01:07:39] Dave Jackson: to perform well. We're gonna come back to you paying attention. I do have one question I want to jump on and the way to jump back to this um, cuz

Why Use Podcast and Have a Website?

[01:07:47] Dave Jackson: Gabriel asked, can you remind me why use pod page and have a website as well?

I don't, I have the school of, which is for school of podcasting's podcast. I have asked the podcast coach, which uses pod page, , for the ask the podcast coach show, I have podcast. So pod pod page is the website. It is it's like Wix, it's like Squarespace. It's like WordPress. It is a website.

So you don't have a website and pod page. Although there are people that will have a business website. And then they'll throw on a sub domain, like and they'll have that. That's what I do. Yeah. And then they'll have a point at their pod page site. So it's, it's not a case where I have both.

, and if I didn't have 17 years of stuff on the school of podcasting, I wouldn't be used, I'd be using pod page, but there's so the behind the scenes, the school of podcasting WordPress site is a giant cluster. There's just old landing pages from 2012 and stuff that you're like, ah, I don't want to, you know, do this whole nine yards, but you just did something that you do very well.

And I wanted to talk about, maybe we can throw this into the topic of what makes a good guest, 

David Hooper is Great at Bringing Things Back 

[01:08:59] Dave Jackson: but you said bringing it back to your voice. You are the king of bringing it. Because as I listen as I on a tangent and they're bringing around yeah, no, it's it's in my case, probably me going on a tangent and you bringing it back when I was editing, cuz you've been on like, I've heard, this is so meta, I almost want, when 

[01:09:18] David Hooper: you spent the last three days, three Saturdays together, Dave

[01:09:21] Dave Jackson: So I've heard a lot of David Hooper and you do this a lot where you'll go like, oh, do I? Yeah, well, not a lot, but like you do it. I was listening to something and you said, well, bringing it back to like podcasters, yada yada yada. Yeah. And then there was something else and you're like, oh, well bringing it back to the content.

So you're always, yeah, you, you do a great, it apparently, at least from where I'm sitting, you do a great job of remembering who you're talking to. Yeah. And then making sure that your answer. Is gonna make sense to the listener. And I was like, I don't know if you do that on purpose or what, but it's, I've heard you enough now say, well, bringing it back to such and such because you know, Dave Jackson has gone off into a tangent about David Lee Roth, bringing it back to talking about your voice.

No, no. Well the tangents 

[01:10:07] David Hooper: good. And I think we need to be following that kind of stuff, but here's, here's what, so when I do music business radio, and so it was a weekly show and when we're recording live, so we're doing it remotely now for the last couple years, but I've got a guy next to me, Gary Crane producer, and he is there with whatever I ask, he's written it down and you've got guys that go off on tangents or can't remember the question or I get caught up because I'm like, oh man, that's so cool.

You know? And he'd say, okay, did you actually ever answer the question? So that happens a lot. That probably happens every single episode. So I'm used to him in one ear and then I've got my wife. Just hanging out with her. She's like, okay, what is this? What is your point? What is it? You know, I've, I've got people in my life that are giving me this feedback.

And I think that it's happened, but it gets back to what we talked about earlier with the, uh, Paola, whatever you wanna call it. It really is all about the listener. And if I say to bring it back to podcasters, like, let's think about who is listening to this. Cause it's not just you and me, Dave. It's easy to think that, and we've got a chat room now, but if the chat room wasn't here, that's how you end up with the five guys getting high and eating Doritos like, oh man, you know, it's, it's all about them, not a listener.

That's why nobody's listening. And that's fun. That's a fun, fun way to do a podcast. I would imagine. But it's not gonna be something that attracts a listener. You've got to think about who's listening and give them the value, uh, drop of value bomb as, uh, John Lee demos would say that's it? Yeah. When, when it comes to keeping them listening 

[01:11:37] Dave Jackson: well, that's why I always get confused.

Switching From Fun to Listener Focused

[01:11:40] Dave Jackson: when you talk about, , the, for dudes one brain show in the basement having some bruise and some Doritos. Yeah. Oh yeah. And their, their goal is to have fun with their buddies. I'm like when their first episode is published, I'm like, congratulations, you're a success because your goal was to have fun with your buddies making a podcast.

Yeah. It's when they turn around and go, all right. But how do I make money on this? I'm on episode two and I wanna start charging my guests. You're like, yeah, yeah, no, that's you, these, 

[01:12:11] David Hooper: uh, these plants are not free

[01:12:16] Dave Jackson: and the. That's when you go, wait a minute, the goal was to have fun with your buddies, and now you're changing your goal, but you're not gonna change your show. I'm like, Nope. Now we gotta start worrying about the listener and you know, yeah. 

[01:12:28] David Hooper: We, we need to, we, you know what we need to do next time I I'm on here.

We need to have a, now it's time for a power ranch or whatever your, do you 

[01:12:35] Dave Jackson: have it? Uh, I do somewhere. Keep, yeah. we need this queued up. It's button number one. I thought I did. Nope, that's not it. Uh, boy, I have every other drop. Oh, it's right here. It's right on the front page.

Power Rant: YOu Don't Want Feedback

[01:12:51] Dave Jackson: and now it's time for a power.

Ran the floor. Is yours surf. All right. 

[01:12:58] David Hooper: Well, um, I, I think that a lot of times people ask me, do they ask you this Davis, hell man, we just 

[01:13:04] Dave Jackson: wanted love. Let me know what you think about the podcast, 

[01:13:06] David Hooper: man. And just, just love your feedback. It's like, no, you. You want me to say that it's great and that you don't need to change a thing.

Do you want feedback? Do you want me to tell you how good it is or do you want me to tell you what I would improve? Do you want me to tell you you're doing great. People don't really want feedback, dude. They Mo most people don't and then they say by God, you know, then they, then I'm gonna start to argue.

You said you asked me, you should asked me before it was put out. Yeah. Don't don't come to me after it's it's already pressed and sold a million copies. Ask me what to think about it. Who cares? We've got a million people who like it. I have, 

[01:13:38] Dave Jackson: yeah, that's uh, Jordan Harberger said, when people ask for feedback, they're really just looking for you to agree with everything that they've done to this point.

And I get why they get defensive, cuz they spend a lot of time editing or whatever they're doing. . And I also think that's why most people don't do. I just interviewed Glen for, , an episode in September where we're talking about how do we cover? Like my audience loves to talk about. Whatever this topic is, how do I, how many times do I cover that topic?

Cuz otherwise I'm just gonna keep repeating myself. So that's the question of the month. And so I brought Glen on cuz he's done 3000 episodes of horses in the morning and I'm like, dude, like how do you do that? So he kind of answered that question. He said, but one of the things he does is he took, he has like a ton of patrons and then he took, he handpicked 12 of them to be his focus group and they talk in their own private Facebook group.

They talk about every episode and 

[01:14:38] David Hooper: he's, I I'm working on the new book now. And I've got a section in that specifically about that. About before you release it, if you really wanna get feedback. Yeah. But I didn't every episode. 

[01:14:48] Dave Jackson: Yeah. That's crazy. But on the other hand he that's, that's a lot of feedback.

Yeah. He said, what's weird is he'll have a guest and they'll be like, yeah, he was all right. You know, she was okay. And the, the. Focus group would be like, man, have that person back on again. That was amazing. And he goes, likewise, there are times when they think they did something good. And they're like, ah, I kind of tuned out about halfway through it.

You're too close to it. 

[01:15:11] David Hooper: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I went, a friend of mine went to who was the woman from Seinfeld, the female, uh, 


[01:15:19] Dave Jackson: Louis drefus uh, Julia Louise DFU. Yeah. 

[01:15:22] David Hooper: So she had her own sitcom. Yeah. And he was in the audience and, and was watching them tape the sitcom. This is back when she was doing it. And he said that if it didn't get laughs from the live audience, the writers were right there, they would rewrite it.

They would cut it instantly. They would recut the whole scene or recut the joke. Right. Or bring in a different joke. And I thought that was really interesting. Uh, we definitely see that with the bands that, that I've worked with, they were playing live. Right. And they would go out and they would get that instant feedback.

We don't have that as podcasters. You certainly have it with. Radio with ratings and, uh, call ins and that kind of stuff. So I think it's a predicament that we can get in. I, I love what Glen is doing, but it's also hard to ask for feedback because you have to open yourself up. Oh yeah. To why didn't you spend money with me?

Why did you decide to turn off? And, and it can be hard. Some people you mentioned Reddit go to Reddit or go to YouTube. Uh, that's not constructive feedback. You, you have to have the balance of, of something that's actually going to help you, people who you trust and that you want to, that want to make it better with 

[01:16:28] Dave Jackson: you.

Well, and that's where I, it sounds weird as much as I like a, a five star review. Um, and I've, I've already said this publicly, so I'm not, I had a conversation with Steve Stewart and he said, can I give you some feedback? And I said, dude, you know me, I, I love feedback. And he's like, sometimes when somebody asks kind of a newbie question, he goes, There's a little bit of the, a little more curmudgeon is coming out and I'm like, oh, you got your inner Dave Ramsey.

Yeah. That's what we call that. And, and I said, that is the best. I'm like, literally I could have left. I think it was a podcast movement or whatever. I said, I could leave now and say, I got value. I said, that is such great feedback. I said, cuz you know, I don't, you know, you just being you or whatever. And I'm like, but I need that kind of stuff to like, Hey, remember this is a new person, you know, a little patient, maybe a little more patience needed here, things like that.

Uh, so I love it. We, 

[01:17:19] David Hooper: we have a tendency to get into that I think. And I think that's the thing. We talked about aging to take it back to when you voice, what, what has changed and I think is, uh, experience podcasters. Middle-aged white guys, whatever. I mean, you can, you can, I've talked about it here before I think about fighting curmudgeon this every day.

Yeah. And we certainly fight ruts and the same type of thing like Glen is talking about. Oh, it's 3000 episodes. Let's do the same thing we did a thousand episodes ago. I, I think we always need to be innovating. But it's also very hard to do that. It's a lot easier to keep a podcast going once it hits a certain level than starting a new podcast, but it, if you really want to, um, you know, it's tough, you have a lot to lose like quitting your job at 40 years old is a lot different when you were, when you were 20.

Yeah. If you've got more to lose, I think it's scary. And I think it's scary for sometimes podcasters to walk away. That's why you see guys that are not happy with their podcast. They don't wanna change anything, but it's the devil, you 

[01:18:16] Dave Jackson: know? Well, that was it. We had somebody write a really nice, really long, like here's, what's wrong with your show.

And they were like quoting stuff like back on February and episode 3 76 at the 13 minute and 27 second mark, you said this. So it was somebody who took a lot of time to deliver this feedback. The problem was all of their suggestions would turn this show into something that it's not like that's right.

That's the balance. Yeah. They were like, we want, you should be bringing in. Different people and you should be doing interview and I'm like, no, it's not an interview show. It's it's free podcast consulting. People should ask questions and go to ask the podcast, I'm like, that's not really.

Cuz when you throw in interviews, people don't realize scheduling an interview is a time suck. Even if you've got Calendly and that whole nine it's like, and then, and even if 

[01:19:08] David Hooper: you've got the hard stop, like you're talking about yeah. It can take you away from your day. Yeah. 

[01:19:12] Dave Jackson: 100%. Yeah. It's crazy. Um, I like, I like what you're 

[01:19:16] David Hooper: saying is like, I think you have to know what it is that you're doing.

I think this is another reason for you to know your audience. I think there's an element of being open to feedback. Right. But also that doesn't mean you have to take every single piece of feedback. Yeah, yeah. There, you can say like this, this is who I am and this is what I'm gonna continue to do. And, and that's not necessarily being the stick in the mud.

That's saying like I do this and I might not be for you and being comp. That's not being the jerk. That's saying like, this is I'm not for everybody. 

[01:19:42] Dave Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. There, there are times when somebody gives you a bunch of feedback. And it would steer your show into an area that you don't wanna do. There's a name for that person and it's called not your target audience.

You know, it's like, that's no people don't understand 

[01:19:57] David Hooper: too though. Like, do you have these things in your life, Dave, where you think, oh, that's what my dad made that decision. Oh, now I get it. It didn't make sense back in the day because you didn't have all the information. Right. So now, now you get it.

That's what they say about people with kids. Like you, you understand everything about kids until you actually 

[01:20:14] Dave Jackson: have them. Yeah. Oh, I get, no, I get it. , Chris is saying, when people ask for feedback, they want you to make them feel good. Uh, reason, one, not to ask family and good friends, what they think surround yourself with iron sharpeners.

Yeah. To get them. Yeah. Cuz my favorite is I remember I was talking to somebody and they said, my mom said it sounded so professional. And I go, do you realize that's not really a comment on the content? That's the comment on the tech or whatever. . That's kind of a way to look at it.

[01:20:41] David Hooper: . 

Big Fish Small Pond

[01:20:41] David Hooper: It's more comfortable. I've got an Ohio story for you, Dave. I had a guy on my street.

He, um, met him, just walking the streets, renting place. He's a musician from around Dayton, Ohio. Mm-hmm big deal up in Dayton. He's come in. He's got guitars. And, and I told him, I said, dude, I wouldn't leave a guitar in the car. That's how I met him. So I noticed this as I'm walking my dog that's you can end up losing your guitar anyway.

So it turns out he's a musician and he comes down to Nashville and he was the, the big man in, in Dayton. He's selling out clubs, , Easy to do easier to do than it is in Nashville. Sure. And he came and he promptly got his ass kicked and he's back in Dayton now. Yeah. He, he wasn't ready to do what it took.

And the reason he probably came here is cuz everybody told him and, and all the feedback is saying, he's great. He's selling at the clubs. Everybody told him, he's great. You deserve to go to Nashville. And that's where the, the big boys play. But when he came here, he, he wasn't ready for that. And it's too bad because if he'd actually come here with an open mind and I don't have the full story, maybe he did, but he could have changed some things up.

And a year later, he, he would've been fine. It's not the end of the world. I think it's just harsh. When everybody around you is telling you one thing, and then you find out, maybe not that you've been lied to, but you know, it's just a different belief system. You know, it's like a crisis of faith. If you will, it's like, whoa, it's, it's harsh.

But then you come out the other side of it, a divorce, whatever. And then you, and you find out that you're 

[01:22:03] Dave Jackson: better for it. The, the few times I've been in Nashville and I've gone into a, a club where there's live music. That's when I'm like. Yeah. I thought it was okay on the guitar. No, no. Yeah. Well you, 

[01:22:16] David Hooper: you and I, last time we went down to Broadway with Jen brownie from congressional 

[01:22:21] Dave Jackson: dish, congressional dish.

And I, 

[01:22:23] David Hooper: I feel like it was like 3:00 PM. You know, it 

[01:22:25] Dave Jackson: was like really early in the day and they've got a 

[01:22:27] David Hooper: EZ top looking and band up there. That's the day shift dude. Yeah. And that's just like a back room of some place. Yeah. The 

[01:22:34] Dave Jackson: competition is fierce. Yeah. I can only imagine. Yeah. I 

[01:22:38] David Hooper: mean, and I think it can be inspiring or it's the kind of thing that can just be like, Ugh, I just give up.

And that's the same way it is with podcast. If you stick at it and if you do little bitty things and get outta your comfort zone just a little bit, not crazy, you will get what you need 

[01:22:53] Dave Jackson: to go. That's really it. And it depends on , your mindset because I've seen some guitar players that I'm like makes me want to go home and practice twice as much as I am.

and I remember the first time I saw envey Stein play live. I just went. Yeah. Okay. I'm never gonna be that good. I'm just gonna quit right now. It was like getting, 

[01:23:12] David Hooper: well, you're just doing something different though. Yeah. Like, you know, you're not playing a million notes an hour, like, or a minute. It's it's just something different.

And I think that's the other thing that gets to being seated in yourself. It's like, we are not Casey case IM on here, we are doing something completely different. The reason with my, well, this is the reason I'm using this mic. The reason I've got a different mic behind me, I, when I built my studio, I was used to using RA twenties and radio, and I said, I'm going to embrace podcasting.

You can see the red and the gray, the stuff before I put up these big gray sound panels. But the phone behind me said, I'm just gonna make a cheap studio and I'm gonna embrace the cheapness of podcasting. See what I can do and push the limits of cheap gear in the cheap room. And here we are still broadcasting from the closet.

but, but you know, it. I think that's cool. I, I think it's, it's not radio and we don't need to try to be radio and we don't need to try to be somebody else, certainly to take it back to John Lee Dumas, let's run this thing full circle, shoot. A lot of people.

Podcasts on Fire

[01:24:10] David Hooper: How many people called their podcast on fire 

[01:24:12] Dave Jackson: and asked the same 12 questions?

Oh, me and Steve Stewart used to have a spreadsheet. It was a lot. I mean, it was like librarians on fire. You're like, wait, what? Like this dude did it. So 

[01:24:23] David Hooper: therefore we're gonna copy his thing. It's like, well, it works for his personality. It's not gonna work for your personality. You've gotta find your own thing because after 3 billion episodes or whatever, you're gonna get burned out.

I would been burned out after 10. Honestly, the 

[01:24:36] Dave Jackson: thing that was blew me away about the whole on fire thing was not only did they think if I just call it on fire, I'll get a, you know, a crumb from his table that will be this gigantic crumb. I had people that did his show. I remember one time this guy was like, so tell us you either went on the show or did the same 12 questions.

Well, they did the like exactly. They stole his questions. They called it, small business on fire or whatever. Right. And I go on there and they're like, so tell us a little bit about yourself. We wanna get to know you, uh, tell us a success quote. Yeah. And then the second, and by the third question, I said, cuz I knew the guy I go, you do know you're doing John's show.

Right. And he's like, no, I'm not. And I'm like, yeah, you kind are. I go, first question second. I'm like, let me guess the next one's gonna be what's my aha moment. And he's like, well, no. And I was like, oh dude, you're you're doing like, it's one thing to be inspired. But like you are doing his show. It's like, holy cow.

So yeah, don't do that. Be inspired and, and do something a little different. Do the, do the Hendrix thing, grab a little, uh, blues, a little country, a little gospel, turn it backward, turn it backward, throw some feedback on it and make it really distorted. And you get something new so, 

[01:25:45] David Hooper: well, yeah, you have to, it's fun to experiment and that's how you find what works and what doesn't work and, and.

we've already got it. John Lee Domi, we don't need another. We need another David Hooper, another Dave Jackson, but we do need you 

[01:25:58] Dave Jackson: that's it. And it comes to you naturally when you, when you are yourself. So, uh, Dave, thanks for coming on the show. Everybody that's fun. Everybody go check out his book again, 100 podcast episode templates.

You can find that at ask the podcast, and to join his mailing list and all the other goodies that he's got over there. Go over to big Dave, what, what goodies can they I've got some 

[01:26:23] David Hooper: templates for your podcast. I've got some things that are just gonna make you help organize your podcast, episodes easier.

Cause that's what I want you to do. I want you to spend more time behind the mic and doing that in service of growing your audience, spreading your message is really about spreading a message and building an audience for what you've got. Cuz I'm gonna help 

[01:26:39] Dave Jackson: you do that. There you go. And Kim says, I just bond.

And, uh, thank you, Kim. Then there, uh, here we go. Dr. Says, love, love, love. You're 101 templates book. So frigging useful. That should be on the front of it. So frigging useful, Dr. . Uh, so, uh, on the school of podcasting, I need to go into my Evernote and see what I'm talking about this week, cuz I don't remember.

, I think this is the week where I have it because of my podcast story. No, this week it is it's Steve Stewart and mark deal from, uh, podcast editors academy. Cause I've had a number of people I think, unless that was last week's episode. I don't know what I'm doing. It's in my Evernote, but uh, it's good.


[01:27:19] David Hooper: good resource. The Facebook group with great. And I heard your pre-interview with them on the profit from your podcast. So it's gonna be good. I don't know if that's the same content or not, 

[01:27:26] Dave Jackson: but it's gonna be, it is the same exact content. Yeah. So it's, it's like, Hey, you're gonna be on two shows at once.

That's right. It was on that. It was a pledge. Yeah. So, uh, but thanks to the chat room. Thanks to mark We are here every Saturday at 10 30 Eastern. Ask the podcast, or join us at ask the podcast. We'll see you next Saturday.

There we go. Finally. Geez. It takes boom shack. I've not listened to his, I've not listened to his show in a while. I now have to go listen, but, um, um, 

[01:28:14] David Hooper: what did I hear him? I heard him.