Conferences and Communities: Why Go? How to Build?

Dave Jackson: Hey. Before we start the show today That's right. It's technically not a brand new patron, but it's a rebranded patron, and that is, Ralph has finally, after a long search, got his new cohost, Juliet, and you can find them at becomingfinanciallyconfident.com. It's gonna be a great new chapter in the in the life of Ralph and you getting your finances together. So I wanna thank Ralph very much for number 1, being a patron.

And number 2, this guy, I I got 2 free Uber rides, 2 dinners. He was very nice to me at, the Empowered Podcasting Conference. So, Ralph, congratulations on your new journey with the show. And with that, Dave is now behind the scenes trying to find the actual intro music. There it is.
Dave Jackson
So check out Ralph at becomingfinanciallyconfident.com. And with that, ask the podcast coach for 08/29/2026. Oh, that's fun because it won't stop the other 1. That's why it's live. There we go.

And now it is this. And nope. Nope. This just there we go. You get out of your Oh, good.

Now I gotta okay. And this is will be this will be edited out later.

Jim Collison: Nice.

Dave Jackson: But not on video. You get to see everything. Ask the podcast coach for 08/29/2026. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is.

It's that music. That means it is Saturday morning. It's time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the schoolofpodcasting.com. And joining me right over there, the 1 and only Jim Cullison from theaverageguy.tv.

Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison: Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Welcome back for all those folks that missed us last week. How was it? How was the trip?

Dave Jackson: It was good. It was, I decided to fly, and it's kinda weird because, like, sitting in an airport is not hard. Sitting on a plane for an hour and, I don't know, 0.5, you know, driving 45 minutes home, not hard. And yet I still had major confidence brain. You know?

We're like, by the last day, we were all kind of like, what's the name of the guy from Podfest? It's the head guy. We're all like, oh, it's, it's the author dude. Yes. That's it.

The author whose name is actually Nick. But, yeah, you you end up with conference brain

Jim Collison: a little

Dave Jackson: bit. But, no, it was a great time. It was, I don't know, a 100 people, maybe a 110. So it was, small but not bigger than a meetup, smaller than a conference, but it was still a conference. And, I'm kinda with Mark.

I like them small. Yeah. You know, most of it was single track, and then they broke up into a couple tracks during the day. But it was a good time, and Mark and Jason and Rich should all be proud of themselves. It was a good time.

But yeah. And the 1 thing that I think really helped them is I done I did not see any they might have had coffee, but I doubt it because when you have coffee at the conference, it costs, like, $35 a gallon.

Jim Collison: That's not $35.

Dave Jackson: No. That awesome, yeah.

Jim Collison: Let's just just give it a pour.

Dave Jackson: It will give that a pour, and, that coffee pour is brought to you by we're doing something different today. We're gonna share Mark's website, and that website, of course, is, podcastbranding.co. So as you can see on his website here, if you're watching the video, over 500 podcast art, works design. He does logos. He does artwork.

He does websites. It's great. And, you know, don't let poor branding undermine your expertise because you could be the most brilliant person, and your website looks like crap, and that's not gonna work. So it's a simple 3 step process. You place your order.

You schedule a call, and this is the thing you don't get from most people. He's gonna get online with you to talk about the vibe of your show as the kids say today. And then you're gonna receive your designs. You're gonna pick the 1 that you like the best, and then you're gonna go out and start rocking the world. And how cool is Mark if you scroll down on his website?

Again, podcastbranding.co. See these awesome tats on his arms? That is from his daughter. How good a dad are you when you let your daughter just go to town and be the practice? So, even the the artwork great artwork runs in the family.

Check out his tats. How do you do that? By going to podcastbranding.co.

Jim Collison: That is a good dad, Mark. Good job. Appreciate that. Big thanks to our good friend, Dan LeFebb, over there based on a true story based on a truestorypodcast.com. As we said a couple weeks ago, the bingo long traveling Stars and Motor Kings is available for you out there.

If you haven't checked it out yet, you can get that now. And don't forget right in front of that is The Odyssey. So that has been a very popular movie. Lots of folks talking about that. That is also available, The Odyssey available there.

You can catch them both right now based on a true story based on a truestorypodcast.com. And as always, Dan, thanks for your sponsorship.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Very cool. And it's weird that about the time you think movies are done, we get the odyssey and then we get Spider Man, which has set all sorts of records. So, you know, it's a novel idea. Maybe put out a good movie and people might show up.

Jim Collison: Yeah. It's always about the content. Right? It's always about the content when it comes down to and sometimes, you know, you you can't predict it. You know, there there's been movies, right, that have been different, made differently, whatever, and they blow up.

I mean, when Gladiator came out, that was 2000, right? So 2016, isn't that crazy? That was 26 years ago, right? But that was kind of newish for its, for its time, right? That was 1 of those where they took big risks.

It was also a mess when they put it together. Yeah. I think they rewrote it like 6 times or something like that. But, you know, you never, you kind of never really know. I think it's super important that you continue as, as a podcaster.

Make it the way you want to make it, like, because you never know. You never know. Now it may not be popular the way you want to make it, but it might be wildly popular. So be you, do your thing. Don't imitate somebody else.

Yeah.

Dave Jackson: Well, here's the thing was interesting. So, 1 of the I think it was the 2nd keynote speakers at Empowered Podcasting Conference, and she was all about handling the stress of being a podcaster, a lot of mental stuff. And some might categorize her as woo woo. Okay? And so, like, in the she starts her thing, and she's talking about energy.

And there was a part, I'll be honest, in my brain, I'm going, oh, boy. Right? Because I'm like, this isn't really my jam, but I'm like, hey. You know what? I could learn.

I I can learn. And, she did this 6 minute kind of white noise, soft music thing where you you close your eyes and you blah blah blah. And I was like, well, this is weird because I'm usually trying to get people to stay awake, and she's kinda putting me to sleep. And, when she got done with the her her whatever music or whatever, the meditation, she said, okay. Well, speaker I think her name was Jen.

Speaker Jen is no longer here. Spiritual Jen is. And there was something in my brain that just went, yeah. I am not your target audience. Nothing wrong against her.

Mhmm. But in my head, I was like, man, this isn't for me. And here's the interesting part. Right? There were some people that were like, did you guys see the woo woo?

Then other people are like, that was amazing. That was 1 of the best talks of the whole thing. So my point here is don't be woo woo. No. There's an audience for woo woo, and there's an audience that isn't gonna like it.

And I just politely I was like, yeah. I'm not gonna get anything out of this, and there's some things going on at pod page. So I just backed up my laptop and quietly exited, you know, the room. I didn't wanna disrupt anything. So just, you know, just because you're different yeah.

Jessica Schiller. Thank you, Mark. And so in the event that somebody says, oh, well, you know, if you do that, people are gonna, you know, think this or that or whatever. And I'm like, well, yeah. But, also, some people might actually like it.

And, again, I heard people like, that was the best thing ever.

Jim Collison: And I was

Dave Jackson: like, that's a really interesting point. Because I didn't think it was bad. I just there's a part of my logical brain that just Just wasn't for you. It just wasn't for me.

Jim Collison: For you. And that's okay. Like, not everything is made for everybody. Just, like, quietly. Just quietly be like, you know, hey.

I think I'm good. I think I'm gonna move. Yeah, I mean, you're going to come up against some of that opposition. Hopefully, you will. I mean, I think that's actually when you find out you're doing something different.

Dave Jackson: That's it.

Jim Collison: Yeah. If you, if you enjoy doing it, then just keep, keep, you never know. I mean, just set your expectations accordingly, you know. It may not have a big audience, but it may have a very engaged audience. And so that, to me, is worth more than a big audience.

I'd, I'd rather have a deeply engaged audience than a, than a, you know, big audience.

Dave Jackson: I'm working on about 4 episodes for the school of podcasting. 1 is my main takeaways from the conference. And another 1 is I saw this I follow a musician on YouTube. I think her name is Mary Spencer, and she's a legit independent, musician. She has a really popular YouTube channel, and she occasionally will try to tour.

And what was interesting is she did a tour not too long ago, and she goes, I paid my musicians a livable wage. And I, you know, hired a booking agent. I did this, and she got back and showed how much money she had lost on tour. I was like, oh. And she was saying, have you ever heard of blue dot blue dot fever yet, Jim?

Jim Collison: Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Dave Jackson: Blue dot fever is if you go to buy concert tickets. Right? The ones that are available are blue, and the ones that are not you know, don't have a dot there. And they're you know, like, I always forget his name. Is it it's not Moses Polon.

It's it's, or is it Moses Polon? I don't know. There was the girl that does the, it's all about that bass. I don't really consider her a big Oh.

Jim Collison: Or no.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Uh-huh. And there oh, and then JLo. Yeah. Yeah.

JLo was another person in all 3 of these, kinda big stars that have lots of streams, announced their tour in a month and 0.5 later said, actually, I need to take care of some things. Like, mister Malone, he said, you

Jim Collison: know, I post Malone?

Dave Jackson: Post Malone. Thank you.

Jim Collison: There you go.

Dave Jackson: He said I need to finish the album before I go on tour for it. Okay. Megan Trainor was like, I need to take care of my family. And then J Lo, I forget what she said, but it was kinda everybody else went, you didn't sell any tickets. And it's like, yeah.

There were lots of blue dots when it wasn't like, oh my gosh. I guess I'll have to get nosebleed seats. It's like, oh, there's a bunch down in front, and, oh, wait. They're, you know, a $180 a ticket. And so this independent musician said, we're really good at measuring streams, but I don't think we figured out how to measure connection.

And I was like, oh, I'm I'm writing that down. Yeah. That's a good 1.

Jim Collison: Are some ways to measure that, by the way. Like, I mean, the the emails you get, the connection that you have to the audience, you know, as you're doing the comments, maybe that, that are showing up on your YouTube channel or however. I think there are some ways of, of, of measuring that. And it's hard. I, I tell folks all the time, especially in the community management space, I tell folks all the time, like, you're gonna have to have a certain number to get, reach a critical mass, especially in groups, whatever those are, whatever, whatever, you know, Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, to get, you got to get, kind of get this critical mass of numbers before the groups will take off on their own.

Right? So you're gonna have to kind of feed those groups with stuff until it kind of gets going. And even then, I mean, and what is that number? I don't know. 200, 300 is, for me, in my experience and the stuff I've done, you kind of have to have at least that many.

I've got groups with 1000s that are still pretty quiet. And, and so I think there are some ways to measure that. You know, we have this, at Gallup, we have this phrase we say all the time about recognition. In order to get recognition, you have to give recognition.

Dave Jackson: And I

Jim Collison: think the same thing is true with community. Like to get community, you got to give it. And I just think sometimes a lot of folks approach it. Now the podcasters are giving community, Come talk to me. You know, I want to engage with you, Ms.

Sometimes, maybe. May, you may, once you start connecting with your fans, you kind of may go, I don't know how much I really want to talk to you. But the, I think sometimes we create communities of giving. Like all we do is give, give, give, give, and the community doesn't give back. And I think smart podcasters teach their communities how to give back.

And that really creates community in a lot of ways, right? And you got to, you know, folks got to give it. If you just come in to take, well, it's not really community

Dave Jackson: at that time. Yeah. Well, that's 1 thing, I mean, like, Mark's middle name should be Mark Community Ronick. It's just that's he's all about that. And there were a lot of people that I saw, kind of his staff members were people that are regulars on his podcast.

And so, yeah, very cool. People are asking about Ralph Scho. When is it? He he actually did kind of a sneak peek, you know, 1 yesterday, but officially, they'll be live on Mondays at 11:30 eastern. The other thing he's I don't think he's doing are you doing a daily show still?

I know, Mark put his show on pause. And when he comes back, I was talking to him, and he at least when I talked to him yesterday, he's like, I don't think I'm doing daily anymore. Daily's a rough gig. That is the the thing with daily, you almost need a team because the minute you hit stop on that episode, you're starting to work on tomorrows, and that doesn't leave you a lot of time to promote. And it's just I've I've done I remember I did napod promo, right, that thing where you do a podcast for a month.

And, a, I kept putting out episodes because I didn't wanna break my streak

Jim Collison: Right.

Dave Jackson: Not because it was good. And it was just by the end, I was like, I I get it. I love the idea, of just start. Just shut up and start and get used to talking into a microphone, and I like that. But I also know about halfway through, I was crispy.

And I was like, I could see this burning out brand new podcasters. So, yeah. We haven't really talked about this. We have a question here from, coxtosten 12. There we go.

Have you ever talked about the changes YouTube is making that will affect creators? Well, we talked a little bit of they doubled the amount of criteria, the amount of view hours, and things like that. So if the goal is I'm gonna start YouTube and monetize, maybe, you know, the whole AdSense monetization at which you never wanna, you know, build your grocery budget on the YouTube income because it goes you don't have a whole lot of control over that. They just changed what they like, if you hover over a thumbnail and it moves, that's now a view. So thank you, YouTube.

We now know that views are completely worthless. And they made a new stat, which is, like, engaged view or something like that. And to me, like, I'd like I watch more YouTube now than I have ever. I'm I was actually thinking yesterday, and I won't because I share it with my brother, of canceling my YouTube TV because I rarely watch TV. I'm watching a lot of Hulu and Paramount Plus.

And now that Ted Lasso's back, I'm watching Apple. I canceled my Netflix for now because I I try not to have all those going. It's just a waste of time. But I watch a lot of YouTube, and I don't know. It just to me, I see it as a discovery engine.

And, you know, some people like to read. Good. Be sure to write blogs. Some people like to listen. Good.

Be sure to have a a podcast, and then some people like to watch. Be on YouTube, and you got it covered. It's just a lot of time and effort and, you know, I don't know. What do you think, Jim? I when I heard it, I was like, do I care?

You know?

Jim Collison: Yeah. Well, this is, I mean, this is 1 of many changes over, you know, the last couple of years that they've made. I was trying to read into the why. Like, why did they do this? What are they trying to do?

It seems to me, they're trying to, you know, get some standard for larger shows than smaller shows, right? They're trying to, to encourage more, encourage is really the wrong word, or maybe discourage the smaller, you know, the smaller YouTubers. But I, I've had a hard time unwinding the Why. You know, it doesn't make the hover over view count. Now that was always the case for Shorts, right?

Shorts, I think, have almost always been that way. But this now is in the long form, right? Was it to simplify it? Was it to, like, did it make it easier on them? Like, were they were keeping 2 stats confusing?

Right? This, I don't know. I don't know. They, they're never gonna say, but I could never figure out the why. I was like, So why did you do that?

I would have actually preferred that they went the other way. To your point, like, I don't think this is helpful to content creators to have a hover over count.

Dave Jackson: Here's the thing, though. Mark your calendar. I'm gonna say 6 weeks from now, they will come out with a report saying we had 14,000,000,000,000 views in 2 days, and nobody will remember. Hey. Remember a view is 0.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Maybe that's why.

Dave Jackson: Because they did that before. I don't know. It's kinda weird. But so I I you know, I'm putting more things on YouTube. I put a thing on YouTube yesterday, and, there was a guy that was leaving PodPage that I'm he he who shall not be named, and and it's fine.

But he was like, I came to PodPage, and I expected to have more visibility and, you know, really okay. Well, there are tools inside of of Podpage where you can boost your SEO, kind of, you know, keywords and such. And if you're using WordPress or Wix, I'm sure they have. I know there's, Yoast SEO. You gotta use the tool.

And it you know, I always say your show notes, if you really want Google to find it, and that's the whole point of the website, you gotta have at least 300 words. And he had, I don't know, 150. 1, had, 14. 14 words was the show notes. It was just like, today, we interviewed so and so and blah blah blah.

And I was like, so, you know, come on. You gotta give Google something to to chew on.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Listen. There's there's no reason in this age of AI to have 14. You know, you you Right. There's so there's so many tools and so many ways to help you write more than that.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. We're we're gonna go back to community here. Before we do that, Ralph has chimed in. Yes. He's doing a daily show.

Well, I salute you, my friend.

Jim Collison: And a Saturday recap.

Dave Jackson: And a Saturday recap. Yeah. Craig from Inglaya's podcast and Cliff Ravenscraft, who will be at Pod Indy. I'm holding up my shirt. There we go.

Podindy.com, gave me a great tip once. Start a spreadsheet with names and details of connections you make from your content and watch it grow over time. It helps me remember listener details. Yeah. I use, less annoying CRM.

That is the actual name of the CRM. And so John says, how do you John Jermango from, Boomer Bunker, how do you train your community to give back?

Jim Collison: Yeah. I think, John, it's a great question.

Dave Jackson: It is a great question.

Jim Collison: 1, you have to model it yourself. Right? I think how, you know, you birds of a feather. Right? And so you you attract audience members that are a lot like you in a lot of ways.

Not always. Right? But people look at you, and they're like, Oh, I like this guy. And they, they stay around, right, for some of those kinds of things. So 1, I think you have to model it yourself.

And then 2, I think you have to give them opportunities to be able to give back to the community in some ways. Sometimes as podcasters, we think we have to do all the talking. Right? We have to answer all the questions. We have to, we have to do it.

Right. And sometimes we do. Sometimes we do. I think other times we need to give folks a chance, sorry, to give, give folks a chance to give back as well, or to have a voice or to say some things or to create, to help you create Community. And I know some folks come at it and like, No, I've done that.

I'm like, Ask, ask your audience if they feel like they are able to con, to contribute to the Community and see what they say. They may or may not feel like they have any, any way of doing it. And it's very possible you haven't given them any way to give back to the community. So

Dave Jackson: That's 1 is I was, doing a, kind of a coaching call yesterday. And I went to 1 of my websites, and they said, oh, how did you do that? Because I have if you go to podcastconsultant.com, it's still broken as I think about this right now, but I have a link to schedule a coaching call, and it points to Calendly, which I don't use anymore. Oh. And I went, oh, that's not good.

The other 2 buttons were so, a, go to your website in the shoes of your listener, your, you know, your website viewer

Jim Collison: Yeah.

Dave Jackson: And and make sure you can follow the show. Make sure when you leave a comment that, you know, if you're if you're on pod page and you go to the contact page and you put in your name and your your message and hit send, make sure you got that. It didn't go to spam or something like that. I have found, the more well, you you brought up a point. When the podcaster shares, especially if it's somewhat of a vulnerable take, the audience might be more inclined to match your level of kinda intimacy.

If you're like, well, he shared that blah blah blah. Well, you know and then you have to specifically ask for that thing. I forget the name of the YouTuber, but he always like, 2 or 3 times in the video, he'll be like, so I thought this, and it really drove me crazy. Blah blah blah. I don't know.

When you're watching movies like this, let me know what drives you crazy. Leave it in the comments. And then later, he'll do something, and he's like, have you ever had this happen when you're because it's a movie review show. Leave it. He's constantly like, his middle name is leave it in the comments.

He's constantly asking and he's kinda giving them ideas. Did this drive you crazy like it drove me crazy? Leave it in the comments. Did this and that? Leave it in the comments.

So if you just say leave a comment, it's usually, you know, just nothing. But if you say, hey. I you know, Michael Hyatt was the best at this. He was like, next week, we're talking about bosses that micromanage. If you ever had a boss that micromanaged you, send an email to such and such and such and such, and then that's where you can make it easy.

So that's, to me, the more like, every time I do a question of the month, I assume nobody's going to respond. I just I that's you know, I've been doing that for years now. And yet every time, I'm like, what if I don't get any respondents? But that works because I tell people where to go. They're answering a specific question.

And then the fun thing is I give them a deadline. And, yes, a lot of people wait till that very they have a whole month to answer the question. And then I had somebody last week, and that's where it now says in parentheses, hard deadline, because they sent it in the day after the deadline and already made the episode and went back and squeezed it in, which added a lot of time and had to redo the time was like, so now, like, no. If you don't get it in on time, thank you for coming. We have some some lovely parting gifts for you.

You know? Brad had a question. I have a question for all. What factors are most important to actually drawing indie podcasters to a live event? 1, value, 2, speakers, 3, cost, 4, location.

What say you, Jim Cullison?

Jim Collison: Yeah, these conferences are really about community. We, I mean, we just got done talking about it. Right? I mean, you can't, if you're, if you're doing like, let's say, PodIn, you know, or this is for indie podcasters, but say, PodIndy that you just came back from. That is, that's a location.

It's not going to change. So like you can't influence that, right? Do the, do the speakers draw folks? Sometimes, like if you get a big enough name, and that's why keynote speakers generally, you know, they're name drawers or name, you're name dropping at that point, right? You're trying to get somebody that will attract folks to come to be a part of that.

I hate that we're wired that way. I hate that humans are wired that way, that we've got to have some big significant thing to draw us to it. But unfortunately, we are that way. I think value is important, but I don't know how people necessarily always discover value. Right?

You, like, especially with these podcast conferences, you don't know, you didn't know going last week the value it was going to be for you. Like you just could, right? I mean, you had some ideas, but it's still a crapshoot, right? You're kind of like, maybe, I mean, you've gone to some where you've been like, I don't know, you know? So the value, the value part is hard.

And certainly, as John just said a 2nd ago, cost is a big deal, right? You, if you, if you put it out, if you put it out of reach, it's gonna be tough for people to do that. And yet you can't lose money on these kinds of things.

Dave Jackson: Well, that's the thing. If you make the price too low, then you have a perception problem. And people are like, well, wait a minute. The other 1 was a 100 and For sure. You know, $50.

Yeah. And this one's $18.50. Like, that can't be any good. So it's weird when you try to make things affordable.

Jim Collison: Yeah.

Dave Jackson: People are like, wait. I'm not going to that. Why? Because it can't it's it's weird. So, and for me, the value and this was the case and, again, there's some, Sean Douglas is gonna come on my show.

He did a thing about really define like, doing something that nobody else is doing. And he talked and he had some great examples, which are great, and he does a lot of speaking. And I said, dude, could you talk about how to get speaking gigs as a podcaster? I go, because everything I've ever gone to, you kinda need to be an inspirational speaker. Like, win 1 for the Gipper.

Get out there and, you know, you can do it and rah rah. You know, don't. And I'm like, I'm talking about podcasting. He's like, oh, absolutely. So he's coming on.

So there's I got a guest out of Empowered Podcasting Conference. I got 3 or 4 takeaways that will be in a future episode of the school of podcasting. I just interviewed Mark and Brad both about their conferences that will be and I'm actually I have a bit of a glut of information. My next episode on the school of podcasting, because I like to play in traffic, is gonna be about Dolly Parton and about 12 different things because success leaves clues. And so, I'm gonna talk about some of the things.

My favorite 1 can you imagine this? It's, you know, 19 seventies, and Elvis is still Elvis. And he wants to record I will always love you under 1, thing, and that is, Elvis buys the publishing. So he gets all the money for the song, and little Dolly Parton who had had, like you know, she was still she wasn't Dolly Parton yet said no to Elvis and did not know that years later, she would make about 6,000,000 when, Whitney Houston made it a giant smash. But I was like, man, the balls to say, holy cow, and not do that.

So, if I had to say, what's the because, like, right now, like, it it I it's hard for me to answer because many of these when I when we were staying at Gaylord Hotels, I wasn't paying for it. It was part of my job.

Jim Collison: Yeah.

Dave Jackson: And had I would I have gone like, and even now, I'm still not paying for podcast movement. I don't podcast movement, you know, the the

Jim Collison: cheap right. It's in New York.

Dave Jackson: Is in New York. Now granted, I'll give them credit. They lowered the price. It's, I think, $200 a ticket. The cheapest hotel I could find within almost walking distance is $400.

And I'm and I I think they did a great job of making 2 days for the indies and 2 days for the business people. That's brilliant. Mhmm. But if you're going to a conference, you're probably gonna sneeze away 1000 dollars. By the time you even if you drive there and then if it's 2 days and the hotel is a $150, okay.

There's $300. You got $50 in gas, and then food is you know, fast food is not cheap anymore. Remember when McDonald

Jim Collison: Yeah. You wanna remember when it was 7 or 79¢ for a hamburger? Yeah. But

Dave Jackson: here here's the thing why I go to conferences, and this is where, like, thank god for COVID. I didn't know how much face to face meetings mattered until we didn't have any. Right. And all of a sudden, I wasn't getting quite now on 1 hand, I got a lot of people at the beginning of COVID because they're like, I got nothing to do. I'm gonna start a podcast.

But as that went on and, you know, it was like, okay. We we don't have any more events. That's when I noticed face to face stuff. Because even look. I see Ralph on a regular basis at the school podcasting and things like that.

But when I saw him in a hotel in not the hotel. In the, airport, you know, number 1, Ralph lost a backstreet boy. He lost 200 pounds. And he's like, wow. Great job.

And he's a machine. He's getting up at 5 in the morning to exercise. And I'm like, I salute you, my friend. That's not my thing. But just hanging out with Ralph and Mark and Krista from practicalprepping.info and a whole you know, Mark, Ronick, and Rich, and Jason, and, you know, a bunch of other people.

And then I I made new friends, as well, which is kind of 1 of the things I'm going for. So it's always 1 of those things where, you know

Jim Collison: You said community. They're all you named all those names. You, like, I still think it goes back to community. Like, what are you getting from that conference that's, that's increasing your community? I think in some cases, some folks will go, they will, I hate this, but it's a destination, right?

I mean, it's like, well, okay, if it's going to be in New York, I was planning to go to New York anyways. I'll plan a little time on either side of it and make, you know, do a little conference, little vacation, get 2 for 1 all of a sudden, then the cost starts to make sense there.

Dave Jackson: Yeah, that's it.

Jim Collison: Right? So there's, I think it can be situational for people as well, or someone new to podcasting, and they're like, You know what, I want to get into this and I want to meet all these people. I'm going to spend $1,000 or $2,000 whatever it takes to get there. It'd be a couple grand for me by the time I put everything together. But yeah, I think at the end of the day, I think it's community that drives a lot of the, a lot of the value out of it.

Right? Because we sit in the halls. We go out into the halls and talk to folks. Right?

Dave Jackson: Well, the other thing is that for, you know, that even though, you know, you're staying up late and you're kind of jet lagged in some cases and things like that, it's the for a minute, like, you're with your tribe. You don't have to explain what a podcast is. And it it for me, I I even though I was tired, I there there is a you you left refreshed, like, with kinda jazzed with new ideas. I got new guests. I've got like I said, I've got a couple episodes I'm gonna get out of this.

Mark says, a successful event for indie podcasters is to create a space that provides a shared experience, a place to learn or be entertained, and a place for community to connect. Bingo. That's it. So it's, you know, here, Ralph says conferences are tough to justify with accounting. Yeah.

It's yeah. Dollar for dollar. If I you know, for me, I can get a client, and if they stick around for 6 months, okay. I've made, you know, some of my money back. If I wasn't making money with my podcast, you know, that you're not gonna get the ROI back, but you might I know a bunch of people that found guests, and they're gonna connect later after the event.

You know? So

Jim Collison: yeah. But it it it's right. I mean, it's tough to ROI, not because the ROI is not there, but some of that ROI is is intangible. Right?

Dave Jackson: Yeah. So it's,

Jim Collison: it's And yeah, to Mark's point, mean, it's not always about ROI. It can be, I mean, you can, ROI is not fun sometimes. Right? But, but there are intangibles in there, you know. You and I got a chance to meet up at a podcast movement a while ago.

I think Orlando is when we went.

Dave Jackson: Then we hung out with, Leo Laporte.

Jim Collison: We did. We did, which was a great, like, and that's, is there ROI on hanging out with Leo Laporte? But no, but for me personally, he is a guy, he inspired me to podcast early on, was a big influence on the way I podcast and why I wanted to podcast. I still listen to Windows weekly on a regular basis. And so yeah, to, to sat down next to us.

Like that was, that was pretty incredible. It's hard to judge that in terms of ROI. Right? But, but hanging out with you, I'd forget, actually, to be honest with you, forgot about Leo. Hanging out with the point I was going to make was hanging out with you as my ROI.

Right? Got a chance to be there. We got a chance to be together. We spent some time together. Some of those kinds of things.

And But you can't judge, you can't put value on the Leo Laporte sighting.

Dave Jackson: Well, you gave me 1 of the best compliments I've ever had. And you said, you know what's cool? And I go, what? And you said, you are exactly the same off the mic as you are on the mic. And I was like, whoo.

Okay. Good. Sure. Here's a great 1. Brad says my wife and I plan side trips to the Smoky Mountains on the way to Empowered Potsky to have a little vacation and a tax write off.

Yes. There you go.

Jim Collison: There's a

Dave Jackson: So repurpose the event.

Jim Collison: Right.

Dave Jackson: So

Jim Collison: for sure. Yeah, there's, there are smart ways to do it when it's not just fly in, fly out kind of conference things, especially from a, we're not tax advisors. So, you know, consult a tax advisor before doing these kinds of things. But certainly from that perspective, you can take advantage of it, whether it's a vacation or business expense, however you're going to do it.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Todd DeGator says the same thing. I really wanted a vacation with my wife and the business deductions would help. There you go. Yeah, absolutely.

Jim Collison: Yeah, for sure.

Dave Jackson: We have another question popping in here. From the z man, would you build a community in this order? Email list, newsletter, 2, web interaction, 3, paid community. Eventually, heartbeat. Yes.

I mean, in in in a nutshell, email is the best. 1 of the key see, I'm giving away the key takeaways. I'm gonna end up not I'm gonna be like, well, this is a repeat if you were listening to ask the podcast.

Jim Collison: Not everybody listens to this show, though.

Dave Jackson: Right. But Paul Gowder is an email guru, and I'll say this quickly. He pointed out that I use Substack right now for my newsletter, and I'm gonna use some other tools for some automation. And he pointed out that Substack is turning more and more into a platform. And I was like, yes, mister Gowder.

And he goes, what do platforms do? And he goes, when they get really, really popular, they change the rules, and you can't argue with that. And he goes, the thing that he loves, because he's an email list guy, he goes, when you have an email list from a reputable, you know, ConvertKit, MailerLite, whoever, right, there's 1000000000 of those things, that only does email. Their job is to make sure when you click send, it gets to somebody's inbox. And there's there's no algorithm.

There's no like, they get there, and I was like, man, that's a really good point. Yeah. Because I kinda was like, so that was, that's something that came from the conference. So, yeah, email list. Website interaction is tough because comments are a giant pain in the I mean, it's just I I know when I was at Libsyn, even using Facebook had a thing.

Shocking. They later took it away. But Facebook used to have a thing where you could somehow tie in an API, and people could log in via Facebook to leave a comment on your site, which was nice because in theory, everybody on Facebook is a person. And it was supposed to cut down on bots. And even with that you know?

And now there's Disqus. There's, I forget another commentings. Comments are a pain in the butt, and Yeah. It's not 2002. Comments were huge back in the day.

But, so that's where voice mail comes into, you know, play, comes in handy. But the paid community is realize if you have a 100 people, depending on your level of engagement, you're gonna get around 3 people, 3 to 5. Now that might be great. I mean, that's 5 people that are really, really, really into your thing, But, paid communities are something that you, a, have to, you know, again, have to deliver value. B, it's work.

You know? Mark from Practical Prepping has, like, a 100 and I think it's 18,000, 100 a and 18,000 people in this community, but he he kicks a lot of people out. Yeah. Because we're not talking religion, and we're not talking politics. And the minute you do, there's the door.

You know? You're you're gone. So, anyway but that's, it's just something you want. And for me, community, and that's really what these conferences are, when you give a place for your audience to talk to each other, that's a community. Yeah.

That to me is my definition of that.

Jim Collison: Just remember, right, where 2 or more are gathered, there is conflict.

Dave Jackson: That's right. And pop both. You're

Jim Collison: gonna so sorry. You're gonna like, as you're bringing your community together, the larger it gets, there's gonna be internal conflicts as well. That's that's always the discouraging part for me was, you know, you start collecting some community and then you'd have 2 community members fight. And you'd be like, Come on, friends, like, you know, can we do this thing? And oftentimes, I found, and this was earlier in the podcast, it's probably still true today, but you, you attract your most passionate listeners early, right?

And they may be more passionate about the subject than you are. And so they come in and start telling you how to do your podcast. They're like, I see this on YouTube all the time with content creators. You know, the armchair commenters on YouTube are like, Oh, you should do it that way. Or you should I watch a lot of DIY right?

So you should have done it that way. And you should have done it this way. And you should have and should have and, you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda, all those things. And a lot of folks, I mean, it just, I've watched some YouTubers just quit because they didn't, they couldn't, they're like, I can't take this woulda, coulda, shoulda stuff all the time. You got to be ready.

If you're going to create Community, you have to be ready for people to tell you what to do. You're like, and you're like, This is my show. I'm going to do it the way I want to. Okay, good luck with that. Good luck with that, right?

It's hard because you hear from them and you're like, then you want to fight back and you start fighting with your most engaged listeners, which is never good. That never turns out well. Right? And so it is, it's a tough, we've said this before, but be careful what you wish for when you think about engagement and community. It's not rainbows and sunshine, you know, sunshine and rainbows.

It's work. And oftentimes, it's conflict work that you have to get through and get through it wisely.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, speaking of, community, we have a little thing called our awesome supporters, which you can find by going to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome, and we're talking people like Craig over AI goes to college or Shane at Spybrary or contentcreatorsaccountant.com. That's still going. Right, Ralph?

Or is that, has that been replaced? And I need to update this slide because this says financiallyconfidentchristian.com. And, no, that's the now becoming financiallyconfident.com. So Dave needs to update his slide here. I forgot that 1 this morning.

It's also brought to you by the schoolofpodcasting.com. Now we're holding weekly growth kind of masterminds. It's been a lot of fun, and I'm learning a lot from that, especially from either people doing things or more importantly, people not doing things. That's kind of always interesting. But coat, coaching courses and community use the coupon code coach when you go over to schoolofpodcasting.com.

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And on the front page, it will show those 2 with a button that says more, which will take you to your giant list. So if there's some you wanna promote over others, again, tripodpage.com. And if you need more Jim Collison, and, hey, who doesn't? Go right on over to theaverageguy.tv and check out home gadget geeks in a minute. Jim will be revealing a fail that happened this week, and I have my shirt on today.

Podindy.com, September September? Yeah. It's because it says Saturday. What happens when you mix Saturday and November? You get September, and that would be wrong.

It's 11/07/2026. The 1 and only podcast answer man, Cliff Ravenscraft, will be talking about, basically taking your podcast to the next level. I'll be doing a quick, talk there as well, but it's 1 day. It's single track, 9 to 4PM eastern time in Whiteland, Indiana, better known as Indy, hence Pod Indy. Well, 2 things.

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So if I go here and it'll be interesting. If I share this tab, are you seeing the wheel of name, or are you still seeing my presentation? My guess is you're still seeing the presentation. So I have to remove this and then add that. There we go.

The wheel of names. So if we spin it here, will it be Craig? Will it be Chris? Will it be Shane? We will find out here.

Will it be Ralph? No. It's going to be yes. Audio branding. There you go.

The hidden gem of marketing. If you've never heard the show, her voice is like butter. It's like butter. I that's why she's done voice over for Coke and many other big brands, and it's a great look at just how the power of audio. Check it out, and thank you so much for being an awesome supporter.

And if I go back here and now I gotta do this and I go back to this, I'll get this eventually. There we go. Hey. If this show saved you time, if it saved you money, did we save you a headache? Did we, did you learn something here?

Did it make you smile? Then go over to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome and, become an awesome supporter today. But, Jim, you had a fail this week?

Jim Collison: Oh, yeah. I only say this to encourage you. Okay? So don't don't judge me on on this 1. So last Thursday, I had a guest bail on me last minute.

Of course, you guys know that I do my show's live Thursdays. Yeah. And so I thought I thought to myself, well, I'll just, just do a solo show. It's not a big deal. I've done those before.

I'll do a solo show. So get on, get the livestream started, blah, blah, blah. Hey, welcome, everybody. Hey, solo show tonight, you know. I we don't get a ton of live listeners, you know, 6, 7, 8, but for whatever reason that night was 0.

Well, was, I had 1, but he wasn't listening. So I was like, Hey, okay, can you hear me? Blah, blah, doing some stuff. And I get nothing in the chat room. So I'm like, Alright, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do this thing.

So I started with my intro, blah, blah, blah. I'm talking for about 20 minutes. I looked down. I had never unmuted.

Dave Jackson: So for 20 minutes?

Jim Collison: 20 minutes silence. Right now, if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to hear it, does it make a sound? Well, I wasn't making any sound on the internet because no 1 was there to listen to it. But you it's just like, how long have I been doing this? How long I coach people on this kind of stuff.

We talk about it all the time. You know? Yeah, I looked down. So I looked down at the, you know, the the microphone button is orange, which means it's muted. Right?

I can see it plainly, and I unmute it. I laugh. I just laugh. And I'm like, good night. I just end the stream, and I delete the stream on YouTube.

I was so defeated that I had spent and embarrassed that I had spent 20 minutes talking and no sound, right, kind of thing.

Dave Jackson: And and you would think even the 1 guy would have said, hey. You're muted.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Well, I blame TJ. He was the 1 guy that was out there. And was like, come on, TJ. Couldn't you he so when I ended it when I ended the podcast, all of a sudden, like, 5 minutes later, he was like, hey.

What happened? And he he's like, I stepped away for a few minutes. I'm like, he stepped away for the whole thing. Yeah. Don't yeah.

I give you even if you'd even looked at it, you'd have seen I was muted. You could have let me know, you know, I was muted. And it's Okay. You know, it's just, but it's just 1 of those kinds of moments. Like, I guess I say this to encourage others, like, Friends, don't be so hard on yourself.

You know, was embarrassed, and I was mad. And I was like, Oh, and I closed it out. The next day, I thought, You know what, maybe I've got these really, I put some together, some show notes to do this. I knew on the way home, I knew I was going to be alone. So I put some show notes together.

I thought maybe I'll turn these show notes in. I'll use the 11 Labs and turn these show notes into and I started working on it. It just didn't sound good. Know, you're like, I mean, it okay. It was okay.

But the whole podcast that way, you know, I was like, for me, you do, you do you. But for me, I was like, No, this was Friday evening. I was like, No, this is, of course, we weren't podcasting the next day. So I was like, You know what, I'm going to take the weekend off. I don't have to worry about publishing on Saturday.

I can get out and do the yard work early. I don't have a show with Dave. This will be great. But yes, it's, as podcasters, right, we have those moments. Appreciate you guys commiserating with me in the chat as we think about it.

Todd Gator says he's done that before as well, if it makes you feel any better. And it does. It does. Just a little embarrassing to do as many podcasts as I've done, and I still came on muted the whole time. So anyways, make sure you're

Dave Jackson: I bet you never do it again.

Jim Collison: I think I will. I think I will. I'm pretty sure I'll do it again. The the other mistake I've made on that is the wrong mic. Like, you know, you come in.

I've I've even done that with guests where you're picking up your camera mic instead, and you don't look, they don't say anything. It's a guest that may not have the same sensitive ears that you have listening for it. And I've done whole shows that way. And I was like, Oh my, why didn't you say something? Like, Oh, I thought it sounded fine.

Like, No, that's not fine. So it's, anyways, I just say that to say I'm not, and I'm not looking for sympathy. But it's just, I want to encourage you. I know sometimes things just fail. It's Okay.

Move on.

Dave Jackson: That's it.

Jim Collison: Content wasn't very good either, to be honest. The decisions I made when this happened, you know, that thing goes through your brain and you're like, okay. Do I should is this good enough to recreate? I was like, nah. Delete it all.

So it was just certainly 1 of those 1 of those moments.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. 1 of the things I wanted to do here is I was trying to remember Jody's website address, the awesome supporter of, of this week. And I was I I know it's audio branding, but it's not audiobranding.com. It is voiceoversandvocals.com. The fabulous Jodi Kringle.

So, if you wondered why Dave sounded like he was drunk, it's because I was trying to remember her website address and could not. Ralph says, Dave is actually pretty shy guy in person. That surprised me. I tell people that all the time. I I pretend to be an extrovert.

When you get me solo, I've been you know? Now you get me talking. I won't shut up, but, Jeff, go ahead.

Jim Collison: My favorite my favorite Dave Jackson story. I've said this before, but maybe we have some new listeners. We're at Podfest, and I've been hanging out with Todd Cochran. And, of course, the blueberry credit card is out. Right?

Dave Jackson: Oh, Todd. Right?

Jim Collison: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the late Todd Cochran.

And we're having a good time with Todd. And you've we've been at the bar for a few minutes, maybe 45. And you had been behind us trying to catch up to us in this whatever was happening thing. And you come in and you're straight sober, and you're a little disgruntled that it took you that long to catch up to us. So you were like, you finally got there.

And I said something to you like, you we've been here a while, and you were like, apparently. Like, you just gave me this look. Like, you know when you're sober and you walk in on No. And you were not particularly excited that you had showed up to this table of folks that had been with Todd Tucker for a while. It was that was just hilarious.

You were just like, apparently. Yeah. Was super frustrated. That was great. That's my favorite story.

Dave Jackson: That's hilarious. Craig says, for me, conferences were all about the socializing and talking, podcasting, because Craig's across the pond. He says, I can't justify the cost to cross the pond these days. Yeah. It's, you know, especially podcast movement, You know, like I said, the hotels are expensive.

Here's 1 from Craig. Someone I know uses ManyChat to handle social media comments. What's your view on using AI to handle comments? I from what I understand, there's many chat and, oh, he's gonna kill me. I can't remember the, something stampede, social stampede, something like that, something stampede.

It's a Instagram automation. So you can say, hey. Leave the hashtag free gift, and you'll get my whatever. Right? And so for me, it's just a a lead magnet thing is what I see ManyChat in that instance doing.

I've never really used I've heard about ManyChat. I've heard about the I think it's Social Stampede, from Jeff, which is actually cheaper and does the same thing, but ManyChat was kind of 1st mover. I I'm not a huge fan of I don't think I would be a fan, but then again, don't get that many comments of having AI write a comment for me. I don't know. What do you think, Jim?

Jim Collison: Yeah, you could. I mean, I think you still need to check them. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I think, you know, a system where it suggests for you I mean, I've got, I've got some stuff helping me post in various places that's making suggestions. I think it's still a good idea to make sure it's not automatic in a lot of ways, you know, that you're checking it just to

Dave Jackson: make

Jim Collison: sure. Generative AI is still doing weird things. Like I know we think it's, you know, it's the best thing since sliced bread and peanut butter sometimes. Oh, it slices and dices and julienne's. That's a Dave Jackson ism right there.

But the, the, it still does some weird, if you, if you are depending solely on the AI to create something for you, and there's not some guardrails or code around it, it still has a propensity to just 1 day do something different. And so I'd keep it, I'd keep it checked for now. It's still in some cases, it's still a college intern. Like Yeah. Doing some really great work sometimes.

In other moments, you're like, what were you thinking on that 1?

Dave Jackson: I heard on the podcasting 2.0, they were talking about letting people tie in via MCP to the the database. And Adam Courier, he's like, no. We're not. And Dave Jones, who's a big giant nerd, like, programmer, it was explaining how it told it. Don't do this.

Don't do this. Never do this. Never and it goes, and it did anyway. And they're like and and and until

Jim Collison: rails sometimes.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. And they said, and until we can get it to really behave, we're not putting it anywhere near our database.

Jim Collison: I've given it tons of instructions. I've written out instructions. I've created an SOP. So it's like, hey, don't do anything until you've read this document 1st. And then it's like, yeah, I read the document.

Well, why'd you do that? My bad. Yeah.

Dave Jackson: It is very much the 8th grade intern.

Jim Collison: It can't be your bad.

Dave Jackson: Sorry, dude. Be bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

John says, hey. I once talked for 15 minutes in StreamYard and forgot to go live. Yes. My people. My people.

Thanks, John.

Jim Collison: Thank you. No.

Dave Jackson: I You've all been there, dude.

Jim Collison: Forget forget to hit record. That's another 1 I saw out there. You know? Some some folks. Yeah.

Those things.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. John says Dave doesn't realize he is Dave Jackson. I Jim, when you go to the I remember there was 1 where you were, like, in a theater. You're on a you were sitting on a chair, and I think a and there's, like, 10,000 people over there.

Jim Collison: It's just 1000.

Dave Jackson: Okay. But it was still because I had and I have Tracy DeFord. You can ask her because I was like, I I don't know what to say that. Yeah. This brand new I never met her in my life, and this sounds like Humble Brag Theater, but it was it was just she came up and she goes, wait.

Are you are you Dave Jackson? And I go, yeah. And she go and I forget what her name was. I don't think she even said it. She's like, oh, she goes, everybody's talking about you, and I I you're a legend.

And I was like and I went, easy. Easy with with the legend here. Like, no. I got it's really nice to me. She's like, no.

Like, you've been like, you're an OG, and I and I just I I yeah. So I I just said thank you. I've learned that.

Jim Collison: That's a it's a really good 1. Just thank you.

Dave Jackson: But when when she dropped the l word, I was like, no. Come on now. Let's not

Jim Collison: get crazy. Randall Dave, you've around a long time, you know, and you've, you've done this. And you, I think, as we think about wrapping this up, I think you have done a great job of making people feel comfortable around you. And you give, when I, early, when I talked about create to create community, you gotta give, you know, you gotta give 1st. You give you're a good example of giving to community.

You help people, you get on the phone with them, you send them videos, you like you give.

Dave Jackson: 1 of the reasons this show exists is because after I got done, you know, playing with Blog Talk Radio back in the day, it was like, hey. I'd have people like, hey. I wanna hire you, but I can't afford it. And I'm like, oh, well, here. Wake up at 10:30 on Saturday.

You can ask as many questions as you want. So this is kind of the Dave giveback kind of thing. Yeah. So it's Well, given

Jim Collison: to me for the last 591 episodes, like,

Dave Jackson: you know, you let

Jim Collison: me hang out with you and get to be your get to be your friend over time. So you you are I mean, from a legend standpoint, you're legendary at the way you give your time. So appreciate that.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. John says, correct. Dave makes you feel comfortable. I work I remember, what was the story behind? It was John's cohost for Hate to Wait, Emily Prokop.

Mhmm. I remember once she said, I the 1st time I met you, I was in an elevator, and she goes, I was too afraid to talk to you. And I just was like, how is that how is that possible?

Jim Collison: She was good she was good at giving too, by the way.

Dave Jackson: She's She was amazing. She she bought me soup when I was sick at, DC Podfest. I never will forget that because everybody else is like, sorry. You feel bad. She went and got me soup and was like, that was a really cool move.

So, Jim, what is coming up on, Home Gadget Geeks?

Jim Collison: Yeah. Didn't know fail this week. A good opportunity to have a guest on. Seth Johnson from hometech.fm is on. We talked a little bit about low wattage lighting, Christmas lighting, holiday lighting on the outside of your house, which is super fun.

Little section on robot lawnmowers and why you still might want to keep your regular lawnmower, even if you've got a robot 1, right? And then towards the end of the show, a little bit of AI stuff. And he actually had a different opinion from me than I have on AI. So we spent a little time talking about that as well. Available right now, the average guy dot t p.

Dave Jackson: Nice. On the school of podcasting, Dolly Parton died on August 25, and, this is somebody who has been singing since she was 10. She was 80. And when I looked into because I always say success leaves clues. And when I dug into all the different things that she did, I was like, man, these are lessons.

You don't have to be a singer. But just the fact she came from a a depending on who you hear, 1 or 2 room cabin. And I've been to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. Those little shacks on the side of a hill, that it it's that, like, wow. Like, that's where she came from.

It's amazing. And so all sorts of cool things. Here's the 1 thing that will this will be kind of my tease, but just to explain how different she is because you don't hear this word a lot. Jim Dolly Parton was an optimist. Like, in a world of like, ah, this sucks, and that's bad, and screw those guys.

She's always like, hey. You can do it better. Come on. You know? It's like so that's coming up on the school of podcasting.

So thanks for everybody in the chat room. Thanks to Mark and Dan for sponsoring, and we'll see you next week with another episode of ask the podcast coach. If you're watching on YouTube, you know, like, subscribe, and ring the bell because, I don't know, you got nothing else to do. We'll see you later. Take care.