Promotions May Need a Longer Runway

Dave Jackson: Ask the podcast coach for Saturday, 07/25/2026. Let's get ready to podcast. There it is. It's that music. That means it is Saturday morning.

It is time for ask the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered live. I'm Dave Jackson from the schoolofpodcasting.com and joining me right over there. Were you doing the the

Jim Collison: I was doing the Robot. Yeah.

Dave Jackson: Nice. The 1 and only Jim Collison from theaverageguy.tv. Jim, how's it going, buddy?

Jim Collison: Greetings, Dave. Happy Saturday morning to you. Just happy to be back. Thanks to Jen for filling in for me last week. And, of course, very sad news this week as we think about John C.

Dvorak, and I'm sure we'll spend a little bit of time talking that, but heavy hearts this week as we lost a legend.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. It was it was crazy. But you know what? If if we had wine here, we could lift a glass of wine to him, but we don't. We will lift a a popping why can I never say piping hot?

Jim Collison: You always say piping. You always say popping hot?

Dave Jackson: Popping Popping hip something. I don't know. We're gonna raise it close.

Jim Collison: Don't say popping hips. That's before we get to that age.

Dave Jackson: Yes. We raised this to John C. Dvorak, the 1 and only from No Agenda Show, and that is brought to you by well, that's not what I wanted to put on the screen. This is let's remove him. There he goes.

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Jim Collison: of course, big thanks to our good friend Dan LeFebvre over there based on a true story based on a truestorypodcast.com. Missed last week, so I'll do 2 updates. Memphis Belle is out there. Most recent episode on there. Memphis Belle.

How much? World War 2. Lots of history available. And then this Dan, this is the 1st time I've seen this on your page. He has a coming soon banner up on is, like, his main image.

July 31. So here in a couple couple days. Right? Maybe less than a week. Odyssey.

The Odyssey. David, haven't haven't seen the Odyssey yet? We have tickets for it next weekend.

Dave Jackson: I I have not. Yeah. Let's go over to his website. This

Jim Collison: this is cool. This is 1 of those areas with Dan. Like, he's super good. His graphics are amazing. And oh, no.

Okay. I thought we're gonna have a singularity.

Dave Jackson: Yeah.

Jim Collison: Black hole would form. But, kind of cool that's coming soon. I hadn't thought about maybe early promotion on your website about your podcast that's coming up. That's really innovative, Dan. Anyways, check it out today.

Based on a true story, based on truestorypodcast.com. And as always, Dan, thanks for your sponsorship.

Dave Jackson: Well, since you brought that up, 1 of the things I've noticed, if you're promoting something, the new there's a movie coming out that is kind of a Sylvester Stallone biopic, but it's about the making of the movie Rocky. That's coming out in November. So this is July, August, September, October. That is, like, 4 months from now. And the actor that's playing him looks like him and really sounds like him.

I mean, it's amazing. But what's cool is you've you've like, he got they really, really, really did not want him as to be the actor, and he just he's like, no. No. I I this is my story. I'm doing it.

And so on 1 hand, you're like, well, I saw the movie. I don't need to see this movie. And they show this 1 scene. We all know the famous scene where he's punching the beef in the the thing. Well, apparently, that beef was frozen solid, and he broke his hand doing that.

Oh. And yet if he got behind schedule, he would lose like, they wouldn't make the movie, basically. Yeah. So there's a just a little, like, oh, I didn't know like, here's information you can't get any place else. And then the the big Avengers movie is coming out in December.

Yeah. It was me. I saw it and was like, oh, yay.

Jim Collison: I'm done.

Dave Jackson: Superhero. Yeah. That's my thought exactly. But if you're trying to do something, you know, when you like, we're we're launching another live course at the School of Podcasting, and it's gonna be the same 1 we did last time. We're probably gonna launch another 1 about how to grow your show, but we're gonna maybe do 2 weeks worth of promotion.

And I'm like, yeah. Maybe we should be doing a month of promotion or something to really build up the Yeah.

Jim Collison: Yeah. We we just did a big at Gallup, we just did a launch. We did set some new software that we were releasing, and we did a 1st look, like, 2 months ahead of time. And then we did some, you know, we did various calls you could join, and then we did a big launch party on the day. It actually launched on a Monday.

We did the launch party on Wednesday, so it wasn't the same day. It's kinda nice to give it a couple days just to bake out there. And then I ended up doing 3 no. I did 5 sessions this week.

Dave Jackson: Oh, it's been a long week.

Jim Collison: That was just this week. So I did 5 this week. So I did I was on on 5 times last week, and we do 9AM, 9PM. So a lot of you know, it's a couple nights late, right, doing those. Wow.

And then 5 this week, doing that promotion. Went really, really well. And you know, Dave, when you're involved in a product and you do a product launch, and you create media for it or whatever, you get really good at the platform because you've seen it, you've worked with it, you demoed it, right, some of those kinds of things. But Dan, I I like this I like this idea of what you're doing here on the site, thinking about, hey, as a header on my website, I could could you do more coming up? I mean, should we be doing especially for podcasts, Dave, you you you're for you, you're often deciding on what the school podcasting is going to be today.

And then you right. And then you record it tonight and then publish it tomorrow. Is that the way it it normally? Or is

Dave Jackson: it Normally, I I actually and I am kinda doing what you just said. I'm trying to give a little more time in the oven for me to look at, but a lot of times, I decide on Saturday, and I start the minute I get home from church on Sunday. And so I from 2 to basically midnight, I'm working on it, editing it, listening to it again, editing it again, all that whole 9 yards. Yeah. But we're now I kinda like doing it on Saturday so I can listen to it on the way to church on on Sunday.

Jim Collison: Oh, that's good. That's good. And

Dave Jackson: then I'm kinda like I get a little time away from it and then come back. And then sun Sunday, I then edit it and do the show notes and all that other fun stuff. So

Jim Collison: Yeah. Well, but so you don't have weeks you you don't have your schedule weeks ahead where you can do something like this, but many people do.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. I mean, I I know I wanna do an episode about like, I have a lot of that. Like, it's it's almost like songs on an album. Mhmm. Like, I wanna talk about oh, crap.

What do you call it when I wanna talk about the power of nostalgia. I wanna talk about there are a couple things I that like oh, these and it's not really enough to make a full episode out of, so I I think I'm gonna pieces part them together. Like, this week, we have the question of the month. By the way, if you're watching this right now and go to School of Podcasting dot com slash question, we're talking about books this month, which I thought would be interesting just to see, is anybody reading books anymore? And I think I yeah.

I've got a couple responses, but not a ton. But, yeah, that's my typical thing is I I I'm trying to now if I could, because I love it when I have multiple episodes planned out ahead of time, but a lot of times, I'm really like, Monday, I kinda turn my brain off. Like, okay. It's done. I've promoted it, etcetera.

And then by Wednesday, I have an idea of where I'm headed. I do research on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. On Saturday, I decide, okay. Now what are you actually gonna do? And and then on Sunday, put it out.

Your friend says, what's a what's a book? Is that the name of a podcast?

Jim Collison: No. Books as popular as ever. I you know, it'd be interesting to know what the sales. Somebody somebody out there get get get an AI going on this of, like, where have book sales gone in the last, you know, 20 years?

Dave Jackson: I know I know more people are listening to books than they used to, and and that's my thing. I listen to books. Especially this month, I've been riding my bike a lot, and I love the fact that I can get on my bike, put in my earbuds, and and go to town. But I wanted to bring up something here. If I bring this okay.

So I gotta do this before I do this. But I thought this was an interesting thing. Just the fact that this guy realized that people are listening to a show. He says, I've been recording into what felt like a void. Download number small enough.

I wondered if it was worth continuing. I got a message this week from someone saying an episode helped them through something specific and real. He goes, the numbers haven't changed. It's the same tiny audience, but it stopped feeling like shouting into nothing. Has anyone else had the why am I doing this question get answered by something with nothing to do with growth metrics?

And that is 1 of those things that I I've been there, done that. And it is interesting. If you can just get 1 person to reach out and go, you know, hey. I like that. That was funny or that was good.

I don't know. How about you, Jim? Have you ever had Yeah.

Jim Collison: Well, listen, I get a ton of feedback on the podcast that we do, but I spend a lot of time connecting to my audience. Right? So 1 of the things I do is with the the folks who are potential audience, right, we have we have a course that we do. And so I get an opportunity as the community manager. I get the opportunity to interact with them on a regular basis.

So I try to connect with them on LinkedIn. So I think I have 25,000 connections now on LinkedIn in And that so I get a lot of and I encourage as the, again, as a community manager, that they're my responsibility, right? I'm their manager. So I need to know who they are and connect with them and such. So oftentimes I get and part of our course is that they listen to some of the content we created.

So it's a little bit of it's a little juiced, as they would say, right? It's kind of juiced a little bit. So, but I get a lot of feedback that way. And yeah, you know what? You don't I don't get tired of positive feedback.

No. I get enough negative on the other side where I get I get people complaining about our products, right, sometimes. And so it kind of helps balance it out. So no, yeah, it's super important. Hey.

Listen. Just this week, I was I had a guest on from another podcast, and I'll talk about this at the end. But he mentioned on the show, he's like, oh, I when I was listening to your podcast and not 1 of those cheesy ones where you could tell they just listened to 15 minutes of 1 part, so it made it sound like Yeah. No. He's very involved in the communities and our Discord group and and some of the other things.

And for a 2nd, I thought, holy crap. Like, he's listened. You know? You have that moment, and it felt good. Yeah.

It feels great when you get that kind of feedback. Right?

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Well, the the reason I I brought that up is, as you mentioned at the top, we lost John C. Dvorak this week. Yeah. And, boy, that's it's so weird because I've never met the guy, and that hit me like a gut punch.

Like, you're like, wait. He just had heart surgery. He's you know? Yeah. And you're like and from what I understand, they did a a kind of a tribute episode that was 6 hours long.

I thought it was 4, and I didn't do the math. When I was halfway through, like, I looked at how much was left. I'm like, no. No. It was 6 hours long.

And what they said was because this is the No Agenda show at noagendashow.net, and they they live on value for value. So you can donate to the show or whatever you wanna call it. Again, be careful with the word donate. But they they make a living. And if you give them 1000 dollars, they make you a night.

And there's all these all these different layers of things, and people give them different numerology. Well, 1 of John's things, for whatever reason, his favorite number was 88. And so they said, if you donate $88.88, we'll read your name. And so I immediately went over and donated my $88.88, and I was 1 of, like, endless people. And some people were simply like, you can't replace JCD.

Rest in peace. Blah blah blah. And then other people are like, I cannot tell you how much your show has helped me. Yada yada. And so it was they had about an hour of Adam Curry and, his other cohost from his other show and his wife and his kids were there.

And it was kinda funny because they were all kinda jokingly saying they would stop. They're like, okay. I need to like, they would lose it. And they're like, somebody else here. You talk now.

I gotta I gotta pull myself together. And it was 6 hours long, and I'm gonna say the 1st hour was those guys, and then it was the better well, then there was, like, 0.5 hour of his other cohost. But there was, like, 4 hours of people just saying, I can't believe he's gone. Yeah. And the fun thing was that show had a dark sense of humor, and they were always saying, like, somebody would make money, like, I don't know, selling your underwear or something online, and they'd be like, that's our exit strategy.

They always had these weird that's how we're gonna get out of this thing. And so you had people that were writing in going, works worst exit strategy ever, John. And then other people are like, is this just a gag to get us to donate? You know? And but when you hear 4 hours of people saying how you touch them, and I'm sure none of the in fact, a lot of people are like, I've never donated.

I've never done this. I've been listening for you know? I've been, like, I've been listening since 2007. And so it's 1 of those things where it's sad that you have to die to get your your audience.

Jim Collison: Well, I mean, certainly the finality of it. Right? It creates those moments. I don't think it's sad. I mean, I think it's great that they had that recognition and because that's what you should do during these times.

Right? Funerals are all about remembering. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think sometimes we think like, Oh, I wish I would have said this to them while they were alive. That is true.

You should absolutely, you know, there are a lot of things you should say to someone while they're still alive, right? And if you don't, well, okay, change, decide to change that today. Like just say, Hey, you know what, if I'm going to say this, I'm going to appreciate someone. My favorite way of recognition is to talk to someone face to face and tell them personally. That's just the way I like to do it.

So I do it a lot, Dave. I try to, you know, I try well, in our relationship, I try to pump that up and tell you how much I appreciate you and all the work that you do, and you do all the work, and I say that, I say that publicly, right? And so but that's that's the way I do it, but not everybody's the same. And so don't get to that spot where you're like, oh, I wish I had just do it. Right?

And then and then when you do get to that point, say those things again. I think it's healthy to have this dialogue. Like, that 6 hour podcast, super healthy. Gets a chance for people to kinda get that out. If you feel like losing it, lose it.

It's okay. Yeah. Right? I mean, it's that's not a bad thing.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. I did that with my brother once, so I forget what we got on the subject. And I just read because it was 1 of the things I thought about. And I said, you know, you did a bunch of stuff that, like, you didn't have like, you you bought me my 1st baseball mitt. You you were the person behind the bike teaching me how to ride it.

And I just went through all this stuff, and I go, you like a you were like a really you still are a very good brother. And I was just like, I'm glad I said that. Because in the event, you know, somebody gets hit by a bus, I'm like, I would I don't wanna be in that boat of, you know, oh, I wish you would've known. You know? Danny says, look, chart positions, reviews, all that's it's great, but that kind of feedback is why I make podcasts.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's a it was a and it was just 1 of those things where I kept thinking, am I gonna keep listening to this? Because it was just really the same thing, and I did. I listened to the whole thing.

Of course Yeah. You know, I was listening for my name, which I don't think they do. I don't care. But Get

Jim Collison: the transcript and search this or get AI search this

Dave Jackson: transcript. But he'll be missed, and I'll be really interested to see, like, how do you do that? I mean, you know

Jim Collison: Well, no 1 should try to be John C. Dvorak. Like, was John. Right? He did his gig.

I mean, and he was a I mean, you and I were talking, I'm pretty sure, about this. You know, Cranky Geeks is what introduced me to John C. Dvorak, and I watched all of those. You know, those were kinda even almost pre YouTube in a lot of ways. I wonder if those are on YouTube.

But I watched those on some podcast player in Windows. I weird I was trying to remember the name of it. Something cast, Shoutcast? No. I don't know.

I can't remember what it was. But I watched those, and, of course, John had a big influence on me early in what I did. I don't wanna be cranky, you know, like he was. Some of that was a little artificial. Like, John had a stick that he did.

Dave Jackson: Right.

Jim Collison: Shtick that he did. He had but he was I mean, it was his let's not you know, we don't need to be him. He was him, and Adam will have to take no agenda in a different direction when it'll never be the same, Dave. It's just like, you know, you and I have been working together for a long time. It's tough to replace that chemistry and do something the same with different people.

And so I I think I I'm a big fan of not trying to find a replacement. I like thinking of it like let's just remember how good it was, be a little sad that those 2 aren't ever going to be together again, right? And then find the next thing that's great to do, right? And so, and not try and recreate it. Oftentimes, things try to get recreated, and then they're kind of a shadow because it's not the same, you know?

Dave Jackson: Well, if if we look at Rob Greenlee and the new media show, right, when Todd passed away Yeah. Rob was kinda like, oh, what do I do? And so he's kind of not a hugely different direction, but he was kinda like, hey. You know, the show is called the new media show. Yeah.

And we called it that when podcasting was new media. And he goes, but, really, new media these days is more AI. And so he's kind of not a hard left. He still talks podcasting, but he's definitely got more of an influence on AI and what it's doing and how podcasters can use it or not use it or etcetera, etcetera. So it's it's and I'm sure he's doing that because well, number 1, it's a hot topic.

And number 2, you know, it's you can't replace a Todd Cochran. So and you either like it or you don't. So And you shouldn't

Jim Collison: try. I don't think you should try. No. You know, if something happened to 1 of us, well, if something happened to me, I definitely would stop doing this. But if something happened to you, I would probably be like, yeah, I'm not gonna try.

You know, we we would do an episode recognizing you and saying all the great things about Dave Jackson, and I'd do a GoFundMe that same way they're doing, no agenda. That would go to you and whatever your whatever the things your families are gonna your family is gonna do. But I would we would close-up ask the podcast coach pretty fast. It would not be, like, I would try not try because it's this is about you and me getting together. And if you were gone, I would

Dave Jackson: be like, okay. I'm kinda done. Yeah. Randy says I love the 3 decade plus of of JCD's birthday being incorrectly reported by the New York Times. So everyone thought he was 74 just to prove how much fact checking goes on over there.

And then, yeah, I well, in terms of what's gonna happen, Randy says Adam's podcast with his pats his pastor is called We Get To Do This is really good. Yeah. I'm looking at what they're gonna be doing and seeing if Adam's is gonna, you know, gonna start to focus a bit more on that direction. And I'm with Randy on this. I hope no agenda doesn't end, but I would understand if it does because there are, you know they might just do the Led Zeppelin and go, look.

We can't play without Bonzo. So sorry.

Jim Collison: We're not But in that topic arena, right, Adam could find someone to bring a different angle and not as long as they don't try to be like John. Like Right. Don't be John. John was John. He was unique, did his own thing, like he you know?

But they could bring another cohost, and they could have a different direction that they could kind of head or a different chemistry that they could create, and it could be successful again. You're going to swap out a whole bunch of people. Right? You do something like that, the numbers are going to dip pretty quick, pretty fast, right, for a while. And then you'll start attracting people who like the chemistry of the new cohost.

Yeah. Right? So to speak.

Dave Jackson: That's why I wrote about this in my newsletter last night, and I said, I hope he has the luck of Eddie Van Halen who found Sammy Hagar. Yeah. You know, they were actually more popular with Sammy Hagar than they were with David Lee Roth, which is sacrilege in my book because there's only 1 But I wear the T shirt.

Jim Collison: You're gonna break up the band.

Dave Jackson: So we'll see. But it was it's sad. And and once again, I find myself going, oh, yeah. I still don't have a will. I still don't have like, I just need to get that stuff.

I need to put that on the calendar and just get her done because, you know, nobody knows where my passwords are. And when he had his heart attack, you know, they had a hard time figuring out how to get into stuff. And so I just need to take a day. And I told my brother, I said, if I ever get it done, my my dad, every time I came over, would show me the room I'm in right now. There's a closet, and he had, like, this little box of stuff and papers and stuff.

And I go, it'll be in dad's spot if I ever get around to it.

Jim Collison: So Yeah. I we we jokingly, I have this what I call my death book, and it's got all this stuff in it. It's like when I die, this is where this is what to go to. And and I I think it's important that we, you know, we prep and plan. We've talked about that on the show a bunch.

Yeah. But it it's it is a great a great opportunity certainly to think through things. Yeah. And so yeah.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Well, we have a question from John for you. He says, mister Charmango, he says, I'm going down the rabbit hole or trying to hook my studio lights up and control them with my Stream Deck. Is there an episode of Home Gadget Geeks to help?

Jim Collison: Yeah. I haven't done 1 specifically on the Stream Deck. I don't have 1. You could tell me, though. Does the Stream Deck does that allow custom mappings to, like, home automation devices?

So could I put a plug on there and control it with the stream with the

Dave Jackson: Stream know that it ties in to the Lexi system from Amazon. K. The only reason I can control my lights is because I paid the Elgato tax and bought Elgato key lights. So that made it really easy. And then I will say this.

If I had to do it again, I originally had key lights that were I had a, you know, remote control, and I I didn't have to worry about, you know, software updating or anything. I would just yeah. There it is. And if I had to do it again, I would have stuck with those because there are times when it's so I don't know what's going on, but I'll hit the off button, and either 1 will go off and the other won't, or it just I I can pound on the button and nothing happens. So then I have to open up my phone, go to the Elgato Control Center, and turn off my lights with my phone.

And then I come back in and do the hokey pokey and turn myself around. Yeah.

Jim Collison: John, I bet there's 1000 YouTube videos. Yeah. He says, I think, they they they tie in with the Casa, Tapo, D Link. They're all the same company. Yeah.

So, like, then they all they got 1000 different amps. If you can connect you get it connected to home some kind of home assistant or some kind of tag or some kind of something. As Randy says, there's a home assistant plug in for the Stream Deck. Yeah. Then in your environment, the key is kinda just finding the right combination.

John, I bet there are 1000 YouTube videos on how to do this. This is 1 of the things. On Home Gadget Geeks, we kinda moved away from the how to just because there's so many how to's on everything. I'm like, I don't know. I want to talk I want to spend more time talking about the why.

Why are we doing what we're doing? Right? Rather than, you know or the integration pieces or the frameworks around what we're talking about, just because there's so many how to's that are out there. So, John, it sounds like there are plenty of ways to do that, and it may take a little bit of digging. I think Ralph's got that done.

So I just haven't set it up.

Dave Jackson: I know if you go into the Stream Deck software, and then there's some button you click and it takes you to like a store of just nothing but plug ins for that. And, yeah, it's

Jim Collison: I like the Amazon device for lights here in the studio because you can just say, hey. Turn on the turn on the studio lights What I say, or turn on the studio monitors.

Dave Jackson: I will say this. I because they kept telling me you need update to the new version of Lexi, you know, Lexi plus.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. And I did. And she was young and chatty and, like, got you, boss. You know, all these fun little things. But 1 of the

Jim Collison: things bad.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. 1 of the things I real yeah. 1 of the things I really love doing is walking into my kitchen and saying, hey. What's her name? Open pocket cast.

Well, the new Lexi doesn't understand that and says it doesn't work. So then I said, hey. How do I go back to the old 1? So I did. And somehow, in the process of leaving and coming back, she's no longer letting me know that I have a meeting starting in 10 minutes.

And that's that's something that I relied on heavily. And I'm like, oh, so just realized, a, I didn't see any huge thing besides the fact she kept telling me Cleveland Brown's news, and I'm like, I don't want to know this. I'm like, thank you, but no thank you. Yeah. It's a challenge.

Jim Collison: It's a challenge. I listen. I just had this morning. I was doing some stuff with Hermes, and I said, hey. Can you update this?

It's like, sure. So I does this update, and I look at it. I'm like, no. That's not what we agreed on last week. Like, we we know.

I've told you the gold standard. We've been down this path before. Would you please, you know, would you please remember this? And then it was like, oh, yeah. Okay.

I remember now, and it updated it. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. Can you lock that in? I don't know if that matters, you know, sometimes.

Dave Jackson: But Right.

Jim Collison: It can it can be it can certainly I mean, I'm I'm I think I'm close to nearly a 100% automation for my podcasting process now using ChatGPT, Claude, OpenClaw, and Hermes, but it's still some work. Like, I I it's still some work. You still that's these are like I've told interns how to do the job, and then I'm, like, still checking up on them. I'm still sometimes they decide to do it their own way. You're like, no.

No. No. It's not what we said. Not what we said. Do it do it the way I told you to.

I we locked this in last time anyways. So it's it's a good challenge. I I enjoy it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing it for sure.

Dave Jackson: Time you say Hermes, I hear the phrase, Hermes wants to be a dentist, and that's not it. I'm like, no. It's her he's not Hermes.

Jim Collison: Giggles. Everyone giggles. OpenClaw didn't get the giggles. Hermes gets the giggles. People giggle when I say they're like, you're working with what?

What is that? What does that even mean?

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Too crazy. Yeah. Well, you know what else is crazy? The fact that people are nice enough to, support the show.

If you wanna be 1 of these awesome supporters, and let's, let me go down here. We've got I've been showing the $5 supporters, and we got people that if you're a $20 supporter, you get your name on the wheel of names, which will be coming up here in a 2nd. But, people like Craig over at AI Goes to College. Ralph is in the chat room, so you can just find Ralph at, askralph.com or contentcreatorsaccountant.com. Glenn over at horseradionetwork.com.

All sorts of fun people. You can see them by going over to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome. And this show is brought to you by the schoolofpodcasting.com. Use the coupon code coach when you sign up for either a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, and we help you, of course, plan, launch, and grow your podcast. And if you, go over to askthepodcastcoach.com, that is PodPage.

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I gotta go hear about, what's, I always jokingly say, robot lawnmowers, but what's another

Jim Collison: That's good. That's good. We talk this week, we talked about sheds and powering sheds with solar power.

Dave Jackson: Ah, you Just go over to the averageguy.tv. And in November, speaking of things, we talked about how Rocky is coming out in November. I will be in Indianapolis at Pod Indy, and I'm I'm my brain is skipping right now because I'm supposed to have a coupon code that Brad gave me. Look in the show notes. There'll be a coupon code that I did not put in my notes.

But it's Saturday, November 7 from 9 to 4. So it's a 1 day deal. We all get together. My buddy, Cliff Ravenscraf, is gonna be there doing a next level workshop. I'll be talking a little bit about PodPage.

And, Brad, I'm sorry. I I got his note yesterday about the coupon, and I was like, oh, good. And it just dawned on me. I did not write it down, but that will be there. And I'll also be giving away, some tickets to people on my newsletter.

So if you, go over to podcastingobservations.com, we'll be doing that as well. So podindie.com for more information. And it's time for the featured supporter of the week. Who will it be? And if I do this oh, no.

I see. I always and then that. See, we gotta do the the quick little switcheroo. Who will it be? Will it be Chris over at castahead.net, Shane from Spybrary?

Will it be Jody from audio branding? I was drinking tea out of Jody's coffee mug that she sent me. Or so we'll spin the wheel here, and it looks oh, did I did I somehow what what do you call that when you summon something? It's Shane from Spybrary.

Jim Collison: You have to say it 3 times. Spybrary.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Spybraries. Yeah.

Jim Collison: It's hard to say.

Dave Jackson: It's, well, if it's it's like a library, but for spies. Spybrary. But not spies. It's s p y b r a r y. Spybrary.

And if and this isn't like he yeah. He talks a little James Bond, but he's actually talking like spy stuff. In fact, he was actually on the BBC. They needed, like, a spy expert. And Shane was the guy that got the call, and that's a cool because of my podcast story.

So if you would like to be an awesome supporter, again, you might be thinking, hey. We save you some time or money or a headache or maybe we even made you smile? Go over to askthepodcastcoach.com/awesome, and thanks to everyone who's been keeping us afloat over the years. So we appreciate that.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Greatly appreciate it. Hey. I got that answer on the book before we dive in. Alright.

Now this is Copilot, so it's questionable. We'll have to see. But books. Right? So books have exploded.

The basically, the message says, in the mid 2 thousands, US annual output was roughly 300 to 400,000 traditionally published titles. Today, 4,000,000, but 3.5 of those are ebooks that are being published. Right? Self published ebooks. So in the traditional market, it did grow 6%.

It was 642,000 or, yeah, 06/1942 titles in 2025, up 6%. And but it says multiple sources confirm The US now produces over 4,000,000 new titles per year. Talk about a crowded space.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. That's Tom Webster brought up those stats earlier in the year and was talking about people like, well, podcasting's you know, it's it's crowded. And he's like, go look at books. And he goes, and yet people are still writing books every day.

Jim Collison: Yeah. You shouldn't stop. You shouldn't stop. Write your book. If you got something to say, write your book.

I'm not listen. I'm never gonna write a book. So that's 1 someone has 1 extra book in their to you can take mine. I'm not gonna write never gonna write a book.

Dave Jackson: Oh, and, you know, I always bring up, like, Tom Brady. I go, you could look at Tom Brady when he was playing and go, I'll never be as good as that guy. But everyone that started Mhmm. Then got better and better and better. Like, that guy eventually retired, and, you know, the the OG podcasters are getting up there.

And so, eventually, who is the new OG podcaster? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Too soon.

Well well but it is.

Jim Collison: No. It's true. It's true. Yeah.

Dave Jackson: And so, yeah, so keep that in mind, especially. I thought we could bring this up. Let me do this, and then we will do the little kaleidoscope thing. They came out with the the AMP, you know, the I forget what that stands for, but and I I watched the YouTube video. I read this document, and it really, for me, just boils down to these people really want YouTube to be a podcast, and I don't really care except that it and the reason for that, there's so many people over there that they can advertise in front of.

And the only reason I care is for stats. I really don't care. You know? But they came up and they said the short version of a podcast description is if it works with your eyes closed, it's a podcast. RSS distributions and video are included, but neither is required.

And when you say RSS is not required, again, they want to leave the kind of the the room they wanna leave the door open for this to change and grow. And and, obviously, the the wider the description, the more things can be a podcast, the more things you can then talk people into advertising on. They said when it came to audio audience exposure, and this is the part I agreed on, we agreed on definitions of podcast exposure that were basically specifically on audience consumption and content and advertising rather than file transfer. So they're saying, look. We need to look at how far did people listen, not was a file transferred from the Internet to your phone.

And I was like, yep. I kind of agree with that. Now nobody's gonna like that because, you know, when you find out that people are dropping off 44% of the way through your show, that's not gonna go over well. But they say these new metrics were proposed as companion metrics that could sit along existing reporting rather than replacing them. So they're like, hey.

We're not getting rid of the download. We're just adding this to it and kinda saying, and we should look at this 1 more. Mindful of the risk to the industry of changes in measurement are not handled carefully, a marketing guidance document was authored to point a way to the gradual adoption. And then their their attribution and this is here's the 1 that I I kinda don't get. They're like, we need to see we need to come up with a way to measure if the advertising worked.

And the logical part of my brain goes, are you selling more product? Then it probably worked. And I know they're like, well, we don't wanna do those promo codes anymore. And I'm like, why? They worked.

And it was really easy to go, yep. Somebody you know? But the bad news was instead of it, really, people just started searching for promo codes. Like, when you went to the checkout and you saw there was a field for promo code, you're like, oh, wait a minute. I could save money on this.

And then they would just go to Google and go promo code for GoDaddy. And you're like, oh, Marcus Couch has 1. And they would copy and paste it, and Marcus would get that. And, really, they didn't hear it from Marcus. He just did really good SEO.

And just as I watched it, the the thing I thought was interesting was James Cridlin asked a question, and I like Dan Granger. He's the guy behind Oxford Road, which is the biggest ad agency ever, I think. And James said, look. You know, people still advertise on radio, and radio doesn't have to jump through all these hoops. Like, so why do we need it in podcasting?

And he didn't answer the question. It was a great example of someone who who gave you an answer, but he didn't answer the question. Because the question was, why are we holding podcasting to a different standard? His thing was, yeah, but do we wanna be radio? I mean, radio is a melting iceberg.

It's, you know, it's not gonna it's gonna be here for a while, but it's melting, and we wanna move in a new direction. And I'm like, okay. But in the meantime, you have this big thing that more people are listening to radio than they are podcasts, and we're not making it jump through the hoops. And they didn't answer that. And I was kinda like, oh, that was a very political question or political answer.

Like, he answered the question, but he didn't answer the question. And so I was like, so but I just boy, we got some we we have we have opinions.

Jim Collison: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some sharp opinions. Yes. You and I are gonna fight on this, but let's read these.

Dave Jackson: Okay. Randy says AMP is a joke overall. When you meet in secrecy and then drop all this that no 1 really asked for that doesn't have a lot of weight. Wait a minute. That no 1 really asked for, you don't have a lot of weight to your work.

Yeah. Just my opinion. That that was the 1 thing I just thought, wow. This is, you know, maybe a great idea, but not rolled out the best way. I thought the whole secrecy thing was weird.

The AMP ideas are just trying to define the spaces for advertisers. Yep. Simply follow the money. They even say this has nothing to do with the end user and consumer. Yep.

And then Danny from Captivate has a few privacy issues that need addressing. Yeah. They really that attribution thing, they really just I'm like, they they wanna know specifically who you are and kind of, basically. They're also looking at putting all the heavy lifting on apps, hosting platforms, and good luck with getting all of them on the same page.

Jim Collison: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Unless there's some incentive. Right? You're gonna have to incent them if you want the right plan.

Dave Jackson: Well, James Kredlin brought that up. He's like, look. If you want thus these apps to give you actual consumption data, you know, you better cut them in on this. Because Apple's gonna make money when people, you know, sell ads. They have that whole thing built into the HLS.

Like, why not Pocket Cast and Castro and all these, you know, TrueFans, all these independent apps. If you if you're going to help them, yeah, that's a service, and we need paid for that. You know, Danny says we all want better data, but too many big players will never open up that data. Yeah. I don't see Apple doing any of this.

And for me, I still swear that Spotify listed plays as 30 seconds before this came out, but I I I need a time machine to do that. But they're like, look. Spotify is, you know, has already adopted it. I'm like, didn't they already have it set as a play as 30 seconds? Maybe not.

But it's just I'm with there's there's just a part of me that, like, there was no like, they I think James got to talk to them, but we needed a James Cridlin who's kind of a tech nerd. No. Like, he really knows the space. We should've had a well, you could have Marco Arment from Overcast, but that would just derail everything.

Jim Collison: Okay. Yes.

Dave Jackson: That guy's very opinionated. So I I on 1 hand, kudos for getting, you know, 12 different people in the room to agree on anything. Yeah. Okay. Danny says, Spotify was same as Apple.

Plays were 0 seconds. Nice. Spotify streams were 60 seconds, so they did change it. Yeah. So on 1 hand, I I get people going, hey.

You know, the Model t, you know, evolved over time, and podcasting is going to evolve. And and I still say, yeah, they adopted it in May. So the 32nd thing. And John says, Sam, Sethi, and I made up. Apparently, John sent Sam an email that wasn't completely polite, so that's good.

What?

Jim Collison: John would do something like that? Come on.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. So how are we doing on time? Okay. Good. John, you're or John.

Jim, your thoughts on all of this.

Jim Collison: Yeah. I mean, we should go back. Listen. I we're we're still trying to configure and figure out the whole monetization space for this for this. I actually you know, back when Todd and and and Rob were talking about this idea of new media, I actually like that term better than this lumping everything into podcasting.

Right? You know, I I watch Pat McAfee do his ESPN show. It's 1 of the we have a bunch of TVs in the work area, I always set 1 of them to ESPN, and I don't watch the whole thing. But I walk by and see him. That that's a podcast.

I mean, that's a podcast style. Right? He's got they've got microphones, and it's kinda in that it's in that genre, yet it's on TV. It would make a if if it was in a traditional and I'm pretty sure I I don't know if they're doing this or not, but they could release this through an RSS feed or have it in other places. I'm sure it's on I'm sure it's on YouTube.

Or maybe. Or maybe ESPN puts that out. But it like, we we have traditional outlets who have taken a podcast style, and that's kind of what I would call this, what we do in microphones and in, you know, kind of those kinds of things, and have have taken that to traditional media outlets, and done it that way. Podcasting kind of I think fits in that new media arena, and it's all starting to blend. Right?

This is where we're at today where we're seeing some popular ways of things, and it's kind of blending. I kind of don't, you know, you know me, I don't think it has to have RSS to be a podcast. Like, I think if you want to call it a podcast and you're doing it on YouTube, that is fine. If you want to do it that way, you call it anything you want. Right?

There's no there's no podcast police to say, but these modes need to be we're trying to identify these modes, right, to make things easy. And I think we're in that awkward transitionary phase between the these forms of media, between traditional and new. And so this is this is the struggle we're gonna have. I don't mind having other people trying to figure this stuff out. Some of it may work, some of it may not.

We may see some new things that that come to it. Certainly, radio advertising is is difficult and is a mess too, getting all that stuff working, right, and the way they do it. So I I think I think, Les, we shouldn't be as focused on the mode, so to speak. Right? You make it the way you wanna make it.

Certainly, the YouTubers have figured this out and are making I mean, they're just making bank on the the real popular YouTubers are doing it. Yeah. Are they making a podcast? Well, they're laughing the whole way to the bank for podcasters because they're just like, does it matter? They're they're doing, you know, as influencers, they're doing really, really well.

Whatever they're doing on YouTube. And it might be a podcast, but who cares? Like, who cares? They're I I think we need to stop arguing about who killed who. Right?

Just get down to the business of what we're trying to do with the media. Right? I've stopped saying I'm a podcaster. I always say I'm in marketing. I'm in like, I'm I'm in marketing and media in a a lot of in a lot of ways.

Right?

Dave Jackson: I'll be interested to see because they say there's $11,000,000,000 in advertising waiting for us. Yeah. We

Jim Collison: arguing with each other and

Dave Jackson: getting And that's what that's what they're basically saying. And I'm like, the the 1 that made me scratch my head is in the there was a new report from Sounds Profitable, and they were talking and there's a slide that is comparing YouTube to video podcast. And I was like, how do you how you how do you differentiate that? I need to email Tom and go, what's the difference between the 2 now? Because I'm it seems very, very blurry.

So we did have another question. We can hop on this 1 real quick. What's the number 1 mistake you still see new podcasters making in 2026? I'd love to hear your take. This one's so simple, and I do not understand.

Well, I kinda understand, but I don't. They don't get feedback before they launch. I don't understand that. So they're putting out Yeah. Basically a rough draft if it was a book and then wondering why it's not growing.

There's that. And I also think we still have unrealistic expectations where, oh, I'm gonna start a podcast, and by episode 10, I'll be able to make money. And I'm like, in most cases you know? In fact, in when they were talking about this AMP stuff, the stat came out that 90% of podcasts aren't monetized via advertising. And I'm like, well, yeah, because nobody because they keep upping the criteria.

So I don't know. Jim, what do you think when it comes to number 1 mistake?

Jim Collison: Yeah. I I like your get, you know, get some feedback. I I let me add a 2nd to that, and I think the expectations can be like, I listen. I'm gonna take that back. I want people to have high expectations out the gate.

Like, I want them to want to be successful, whatever that means, right out of the gate. Want them to have high expectations for themselves, and I want them to work hard enough to get to those expectations. Now, the universe and the space and your skill and your talent may say differently, right? All those things have to come together to kind of an opportunity to kind of make it work. But I want folks coming in to have high expectations for themselves.

I don't think this is a bad idea to be like, hey, I want to come in and be successful. I definitely don't want sometimes we give the impression like, oh, it's going to take a while. Oh, it takes used to say, Dave, like 3 years.

Dave Jackson: 3 years.

Jim Collison: I mean, some of that's true for a lot of people. But I think you got to start with, hey, I'm gonna get after this and try to be successful. Because I think you can be, right? It's a lot of work. It's like opening any small business.

You can go at it with with with all the vigor that you have inside of you. Does that mean it's gonna be successful? Well, a lot of things have to go right, you know, to in order for for it to be. Doesn't guarantee it. But I do know if you don't start, you definitely will not be successful.

That I can guarantee you. Right? There's a guarantee right there.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. He says, if you had to start a podcast from 0, what would be your 1st 3 steps? Why am I doing this? Yep. Because if I don't get my why, I quit.

Who is this for? And everyone is not an option. And then I'm gonna give you 4th. The 3rd 1 is what? What can I talk about that's gonna educate or entertain the who while moving them towards my why?

And then the 4th 1 is how am I gonna measure my success? And, yes, that could be downloads. But if it's if the goal is money, then you're measuring that in QuickBooks or whatever you're using. And, again, because how do you know if it's working or not? And there are so many things.

I saw somebody on Reddit today. There are just so many other ways to measure success besides downloads. But any anything you wanna add to that, Jim?

Jim Collison: Yeah. I well, you know, certainly your why. We say this all the time, and, you know, thanks, Simon Sinek, for coming up with that idea. But it was there before. But anyways, the the why is super important because it's gonna drive your motivation.

What what are you trying to you know, when I started Called to Coach back in the day with at Gallup, you know, 15 ago or 14 years ago now, though my why was I wanted to reach a community. We had all these coaches going through our training, and I said, man, I got a great method to continue to communicate with them on a regular basis, and we might get some additional marketing, you know, we might create brand, so to speak. I could never prove that folks would come from that video into and become a coach. Like, we we we didn't have the tie, but the brand we created with it for our existing clients was strong. Right?

And I didn't have advertising, and I couldn't have like, the podcast was advertising. Advertising. Intent, right, for it. And so, you know, for for me, my audience expectations, you know, I think at 1 point, we probably got I mean, the whole channel did 4,000,000 down has done 4500000 downloads. So, I mean, okay.

Is that successful? Yeah. That's pretty successful in my book. Episodes got 5 to 10,000 downloads, you know, during the peak of doing, you know, of doing it. Was I reaching the audience?

Yeah. Because I got a lot of feedback. That's how I measured it. This what I talked about on LinkedIn, I got feedback for those folks that I connected to. That was as a marketing guy.

That's what's important to me, right, is I'm getting that you're getting that feedback you're not asking for. I was never like, hey, send me an email unless you had problems, then you could send me an email. But I never, like, begged for feedback to tell me, you know, how how you liked it. And I got it all the time. And so I was just like, okay.

We're hitting we're hitting the mark here.

Dave Jackson: You have to ask for what you want. Yeah. I I'm I'm working with someone right now, and and they have a certain thing they're trying to achieve. I said, I haven't heard you ask for that yet. Like, you know, what's what's the deal on that?

Mark from Empowered Podcasting coming up very soon. No. I'll be there. That's gonna be funny. He says, I work with a ton of podcasters, and truthfully, the vast majority don't go into podcasting thinking it's gonna be their financial savior.

That's good to hear. I don't think most podcasters have unrealistic expectations. I I tend to lean a little more the other way. That pod page, there are a lot of people like, hey. I got a website.

It's been up for 2 months. Why am I not at the top of Google? Because I need to make some money with this thing. And I'm like, that's not the way the Internet works. Jody says, hey.

If you take money for your podcast, it makes you beholden to someone. I mean, it can be nice, but, honestly, she's not in a hurry. And then, Danny says, well, hold on. They're having their own show. I like this.

Jim Collison: This is awesome.

Dave Jackson: We'll just sit here and put comments up on there. I love this. It's easy. I would disagree with that. Meaning, Jody says you can work with a sponsor, a paid partnership, and be neutral.

It's not the money that's the, quote, issue. It's the podcaster and their approach. And then Jody says, my podcast is specific to a certain topic. Yep. The power of sound.

So that I can raise all boats for those who work in sound. Yep. And as it's a nice way to let people know what I do too. Yes. Phenomenal voice over person.

So

Jim Collison: Well, listen. In the influencer space, it is possible, and I've watched podcasters do this and YouTubers do this where they, you know, they begin they get a product sponsor, and then it gets to be all about the sponsor. They won't say anything bad. I also see in that same space folks saying to their, hey, you're gonna give me your product, and I'm gonna talk about it, or you're gonna sponsor this, I reserve the right to say anything that I want, and they're pretty vocal about it upfront. Right?

And but I run this tendency in my podcast. It's it's why I don't do a lot of reviews, or I don't I don't take a lot of products because I do feel a little bit like, you know, when I get it, I'm like, oh, I don't want to say a lot of bad things because I want them to keep sending me stuff. And I go back and forth on that. I get a lot of product. Hey, can we send you?

And I'm just like, no, don't bother. And sometimes I say to him, what are you looking for? Like, if you're sending this, what are you expecting from me? That has maybe been the best thing I've said from an advertising standpoint is what are you expecting from it? Part of the problem is too, I have a strong work brand, so I have to be careful that I don't become a spokesman for another product.

I'm a spokesman for Gallup and what we do. Right? That's my job there. So I also have to be careful on the tech side of things not to be too much of a spokesman for, you know, today I'm representing, whatever. Right?

I can talk about the product, but I have to be careful there. So, you know, that's a that's a fine line. I sometimes have thought about quitting on the tech side just because I'm like, I'm tired of walking that line. I'll come back to owner attire. Well You know?

But it's fun, so I I keep going.

Dave Jackson: When I ask people, I go, how are you gonna measure your success? And they go, I guess downloads. And I'm like, okay. And I go, let me bust out my my magic baby rake, and I go, poof. You have 20,000 downloads.

I go, how has your show changed? And and I go, what's what's different in your life? And they'll go, oh, well, then I can get sponsors, and I'll make money. And I go, so is that the goal of the show? And they're like, well, it wouldn't be bad.

I go, well, it doesn't matter. I just need to know. And so that's where I usually uncover. Know, I rake away the sand and go, oh, you're really in it for money. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that, but it just so many people like, oh, I wanna if if 1 person hears my message, that'd be great.

And then you're like, great. So, you know, congratulations. You've got 5 downloads. You've had 5 people hear your message, but I'm not making any money, though. And I'm like, well, you didn't say that.

Like, what's the deal? So we got another follow-up question from to, I I'm gonna guess, talking. You could only give 1 piece of advice to someone trying to reach their 1st 1,000 listeners, it's not the tech. If your show is listenable, it's not the tech. Getting a new microphone, nope.

It's the content. Back in the day, I think it was Clinton was up for president or whatever, and he said, it's the economy, stupid. Yeah. It's it's I will Or, no, that was that might have been Bush. Yeah.

I don't know. 1 of the presidents said, it's the economy, stupid. And I don't like the stupid part, but I do like to point at people that, like, most people tune in for the content, not the, oh, wow. They're using the s m 7 b or, oh, look. They've they're using Riverside or whatever.

So that would be my 1 thing. It's it's the content.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Although I would say if that s m 7 b makes you feel important because sometimes, you know, you gotta dress for success. Right? You gotta dress the part that you're trying to portray. And so if that s m 7 b makes you feel good about being a podcaster and doing the media, do it.

Like, get that thing in front of you, mate, because sometimes that helps with the confidence. Right? I've got an I think this is the Samsung. It I don't care. It doesn't mean, 1, I have a 7B at work, and it's fine.

For me, that doesn't matter. Right? But for some folks, I'd say, if that's if the gear makes you feel better, go for it. Right? Yeah.

Dave Jackson: That's yeah. I mean, that's, you know, I I actually am almost I was thinking about that the other day. I have an ElectroVoice RE 3 20 sitting here. Yeah. This is my favorite mic.

And I'd like this 1, you know, but and they're like, but you have an s m 7 b. You have the Joe Rogan mic behind you. I'm like, yeah. I don't like the way I sound on that. Yeah.

Jim Collison: So I think you sound crispy on that RE.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Well, that's why I like it. I like my s's and t's to be very crispy.

Jim Collison: Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Jackson: So it's and and I know Mark had said, really? On the podcast. Yeah. When I when I do a little digging, most people that I work with, now I have a few that like, no. No.

I just I just wanna get this out there. Don't really need to make money. And, again, that's that's perfectly fine too. So Yeah. It's always fun.

But, Jim, what is coming up on Home Gadget Geeks?

Jim Collison: Yeah. TJ Huddleston joins me from HomeTech dot f m. We talk a little bit about, like, garden tech. So he uses soil moisture sensors. He has automatic waterers.

He's using cameras. He has solar panel on his shed and a battery. So if you're, like, into outdoor solar watering tech, it's that time of year. No mowers mentioned, by the way, in that at all. It's available now.

Homegadgetgeeks.com, which is a pod page. That's not the averageguy.tv, but, both work.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. Boy, now we're all talking microphones in the chat room. That's hilarious. Jody's Jody can make her microphone change colors. So, I mean, that's it.

I gotta get that mic. That's

Jim Collison: That would be

Dave Jackson: But if that's what you like, that's what you like. You know?

Jim Collison: That too.

Dave Jackson: I agree with that. On the school of podcasting, we ask the question, so you find out somebody is a content creator. What would be the book you would recommend to them? And if you go over right now, because we're we're wrapping up the show, if you need something to do before you head off to lunch, schoolofpodcasting.com/question, and that is always there. If you're listening to this later, you're like, oh, I missed it.

Well, there'll there'll be a new question. We always do that, and it's a great way to get some quick exposure for your show because I always ask you to briefly tell me about your show, and don't forget your your URL. You do not win awards for saying your website the fastest. I haven't had somebody do that in a while where they're like, yes. And my show is at.

And I'm like, wait. What? So I

Jim Collison: didn't just do that when I said to everybody to help me.

Dave Jackson: That's it. But if you're going outside and you're listening to this and it's summer, don't forget your sunscreen. And we will see you next week with another episode of ask the podcast coach. Get your dance off.